MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES Sixty-eighth Session April 19, 1995 The Senate Committee on Natural Resources was called to order by Vice Chairman Lawrence E. Jacobsen, at 1:30 p.m., on Wednesday, April 19, 1995, in Room 224 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Vice Chairman Senator Mark A. James Senator Mike McGinness Senator Ernest E. Adler Senator John B. (Jack) Regan Senator O. C. Lee COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT: Senator Dean A. Rhoads, Chairman (Excused) STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Kathy E. Cole, Committee Secretary Fred Welden, Chief Deputy Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau OTHERS PRESENT: Stephanie Tyler, Lobbyist, Nevada Propane Dealers Association Tim Hafen, Chairman, State Board of Agriculture Ron Templeman, Area Manager, Amerigas Propane Company & Petrolane Robert J. Gagnier, Executive Director, State of Nevada Employees Association Albert E. Boardman, Administrative Services Bureau Chief, Division of Wildlife Gail Wilmoth, Supervisor, License Agent Program, Division of Wildlife Vice Chairman Jacobsen opened the hearing on Senate Bill (S.B.) 359. SENATE BILL 359: Makes various changes to provisions relating to weighing and measuring devices. Stephanie Tyler, Lobbyist, Nevada Propane Dealers Association, said: I have with me...Tim Hafen, the chairman of the Agriculture Board ...and Ron Templeman the area manager of Amerigas... This is a rather a unique issue that I am bringing to you today. I have given you a couple of handouts (Exhibit C) [that will provide] you [with] some background [information] with regard to the...testing of propane devices. By the division of weights and measures own estimation, propane devices are the most complex of the devices they test... Ms. Tyler continued her testimony referring to Exhibit C which included her statement, reasoning for change of law/policy, proposed amendments, along with a letter of support from the Pro-Flame company. Vice Chairman Jacobsen asked Ms. Tyler, "How many propane devices are utilized in the state?" Ms. Tyler relayed that question onto Mr. Tim Hafen. Tim Hafen, Chairman, State Board of Agriculture, said: There are about 360 devices statewide. It would be our intent to go behind the private calibrators and on a random 10 percent...or 36 devices each year make sure that everyone is complying. ...[That is, just as we are doing now] we [would] check those devices on a 1 out of 10 basis each year and ...we would probably use...our fee schedule for arranging this special test. [This would] basically test the device plus it [would] also [permit us] to charge a rate by the hour for one of our people and mileage for the truck. Mr. Hafen then referred to Exhibit C which included their proposed amendments to the language of the bill. He specifically pointed out that it was their goal to set policy with regard to the testing of the devices on an annual basis. However, Mr. Hafen made it very clear that they did not want the annual testing to be set as a statute. If they missed testing one device during the year, there could be problems beyond a question of policy. Vice Chairman Jacobsen said, "Are you indicating that even after...private enterprise would go around...you would still come around and say it was OK?" Mr. Hafen affirmed this to be so and added, "We [would] spot check 10 percent of the devices throughout the state on a randomized basis each year, just to make sure that everybody remains in compliance." Vice Chairman continued the questioning by saying, "How many qualified testers are there in Nevada, in private enterprise?" Mr. Hafen said he could not answer that. The question was then handed over to Mr. Ron Templeman. Mr. Ron Templeman, Area Manager, Amerigas Propane Company & Petrolane, said: Currently, there is no one. We either have to go to Utah, in Ogden and have someone come in and test the trucks; or we have to go to California, the Sacramento area. That is one of the real problems we have run into. If, [for example,] we do have a truck break down...it may take a week to 2 weeks out of California or Utah to come in and test those devices. That is one of the real issues and why we have gotten involved in this... Senator Regan inquired of the three witnesses, "How does one become a qualified tester? Is there a training program that they can go [through]?" Ms. Tyler responded: [The qualifications/training are] set forth in very general terms within this bill, but it deals with basically implying competency in the properties of propane and having adequate devices to check that. That would [cover the] regulations [as directed] by [the] division of weights and measures. Currently, ...there is a gentleman in California...that primarily comes into Nevada and each dealer pays him on a mileage basis... It becomes a very expensive proposition... There have been a number of folks in the last year...who have stated interest in coming into Nevada and setting up a permanent operation. It's one of those situations in which once it is legal and it's out there, [we in essence will] build the mountain and they will come [to it]. Vice Chairman Jacobsen asked if there were any other questions from the committee. Mr. Hafen asked to further his comments. He stated: I might add it would be our intent that all propane devices...would be tested by the private tester as soon as we can get our regulation in place and get testers registered and licensed and so on... We've done some looking...as far as budget. We think it would be pretty revenue neutral. We think it is costing us as much as the testing devices and we are bringing someone in...and having all the overhead costs... We have asked for another position to come in on October 1 and that is just due to the growth of devices in the state... Vice Chairman Jacobsen was concerned about the overall qualifications of the soon-to-be hired tester. Based on his own experiences, he recalled that a tester used to come to their business and that man covered a majority of the devices as a well-provided service and even had the ability to make the adjustments as needed. Mr. Hafen clarified that the person would be able to do the routine testing and adjustments, however; if the problem was of a "more serious repair" then, it would necessitate another trip and of course, add to the expense of repairing the device. Vice Chairman Jacobsen then asked Mr. Templeman, "Is a gas meter different than a meter that measures petroleum products?" Mr. Templeman said, "Yes, they are [two] whole different testing situations. Of course, one of the main things with propane is the way the trucks are set up...so you are getting an even gallon of measurement on them. They also have a temperature compensator on them. It's pretty complicated..." The discussion continued around the different testing situations, the scheduling of service for the rural areas, and how the state could be better served with the passage of this bill. Senator Regan asked Mr. Templeman to look at their own proposed amendments on section 5, page 3, line 14, "an application for a certificate of registration on a form..." The senator asked, "Will this be an additional cost to you? Or will you be able to Xerox a form [a blank application form] that they will be sending back to you? " Mr. Templeman said, "[With regard to]...that application, I don't know whether we have those currently or not, but...whether or not we have a form that is applicable...we [will] have to go through some hearings to propagate some good regulations to administer this whole thing...which shouldn't be [at any] great cost." Ms. Tyler commented: ...it will end up costing the individual dealers [of propane] at the time of the test a little bit more; but the idea is being able to do a `one stop' shopping, that is, they can have any calibrations, [or] any repairs done at the time of the testing. As you know vice chairman, downtime is what makes this business either profitable or not profitable. So, from that standpoint they're definitely willing to bear any slight financial burden. In terms of alerting all the dealers... [and realizing that] every single dealer will be affected [by this bill]...we have sent out three separate mailings to every member of the Propane Dealers Association as well as non-member class-one dealers that this would affect. They have been asked to come to meetings. ...They should be fully aware of what we are considering here today and [as of this date] we have received virtually no opposition at all. Vice Chairman Jacobsen asked one of the three witnesses to respond to the following question, "...Do we have to inspect California trucks [which come into our state, such as into the Lake Tahoe area]?" Mr. Templeman said, "Yes, we do [have to inspect their trucks]. Currently, there are 50 trucks in Nevada. I have one truck that comes from Salt Lake City...one from Walker, California into the Topaz area...and all [of] those trucks have to be licensed and certified for this state." Robert J. Gagnier, Executive Director, State of Nevada Employees Association, testified. He stated: ...I am here today to speak on behalf of some of the weights and measurers who have asked me to come forward on this bill. We are not speaking for or against the bill, but really raising some issues...for the future. There are some very special reasons why this bill was brought forward and there are some needs for the bill that deals with some sophisticated equipment...but, we don't want to see this as a precedent for other types of inspections within the bureau of weights and measures because the concept is to have an independent third party inspect these devices and we want to see that stay intact... [Further,] while there may be special circumstances for the propane devices, we think that concern should be registered...for the future, that this not be taken as a general move to eliminate the third-party inspection of measuring devices within the State of Nevada. Vice Chairman Jacobsen closed the hearing on S.B. 359 and opened the hearing on Assembly Bill (A.B.)147. ASSEMBLY BILL 147: Makes various changes to provisions governing license agents of division of wildlife of state department of conservation and natural resources. Albert E. Boardman, Administrative Services Bureau Chief, Division of Wildlife, testified by giving a brief recap of the license agent program, which is within the Division of Wildlife. It is through this program that all the hunting and fishing licenses and stamps are sold throughout the state. According to Mr. Boardman there are 160 locations throughout the state that are a part of the program. Mr. Boardman drew attention to the wording of the bill that he believes will put the program on more of a business footing. He then proceeded to "walk through the bill" with the division's recommendations. Vice Chairman Jacobsen asked Mr. Boardman how the locations are chosen for the license agent program, also, he wanted to know how the problems with the collections are being resolved. Mr. Boardman responded: Initially, to establish themselves as a license agent we have a regular check off list which our game wardens take out to the proposed agent. We check their facility itself. We talk to them asking them how they are going to handle the cash... Do they understand how to fill out the license itself? We provide that training to them to make sure they...understand what their requirements are, and how they will need to submit their monthly reports. They also have to be in business for more than 1 year in length [before we will consider their becoming a license agent]. We take a look at their profit/loss statement...all of these [steps] are to establish them. [After being established,] they must keep up a monthly report... [If after the second late notice] we send our game wardens in that locality to pay the agents a visit...[and ask] how can we help you...? Senator McGinness asked, "Mr. Boardman, if someone was delinquent, how long would they go before you would actually go out and pull their inventory of licenses?" Mr. Boardman stated: Usually we try to work with them. It would probably average 4 months to 6 months. If they have not responded in that length of time, and haven't given us any indication that they are interested in continuing in this business, then we will go out with a letter saying, this is what you owe us based on your inventory of records and we will try to collect that. If we are unable to collect that, the dollar value of that inventory, then, we will go to the bonding company and recover our money from the bonding company. Senator McGinness inquired, "So, you never really have any inventory out that is not covered by the bonds?" Mr. Boardman replied: Not, in the past. However, we are in the process of changing that. We are going to increase the amount of inventory that is available to the license agent, so that we no longer run into the problem particularly where they have run out of licenses to sell, but I couldn't give them any more because of the limitation of the bonding company... This [bill] will [help us]...disconnect the bond from the inventory...so, that I can issue more inventory... Gail Wilmoth, Supervisor, License Agent Program, Division of Wildlife, was asked to testify. She said, "The agents expressed their concerns with regard to the paperwork; [that is,] the administrative side of issuing the licenses and the recording [which] is [so] time consuming for them. That's probably one of their greatest concerns." Mr. Boardman further informed the committee that their Junior License Program is going strong. It includes a youth hunt for 12 to 15 year olds. The hunt was recommended by the county advisory boards for both Clark and Nye counties. Ms. Wilmoth concluded her testimony by encouraging the committee to raise the license application fees from 50 cents to $1 which will in turn help the license agents. Finally, she told the senators that, through her office, they have established newsletters to the license agents that go out quarterly. The information reminds the agents to ask for photo identifications and residency for certain licenses. Vice Chairman Jacobsen closed the hearing on A.B. 147 and adjourned the hearing at 2:40 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Kathy E. Cole, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Vice Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Natural Resources April 19, 1995 Page