MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AND OPERATIONS Sixty-eighth Session June 22, 1995 The Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations was called to order by Chairman Mike McGinness, at 3:16 p.m., on Thursday, June 22, 1995, in Room 227 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Mike McGinness, Chairman Senator William J. Raggio, Vice Chairman Senator Raymond D. Rawson Senator Mark A. James Senator Dina Titus Senator Bob Coffin Senator Bernice Mathews STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Robert E. Erickson, Research Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau Mavis Scarff, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Ande Engleman, Private Citizen The committee discussed the senate concurrent resolutions (S.C.R.s) recommended for interim studies. SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 14: Creates committee to study consolidation of governmental services. (BDR R-597) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 28: Directs Legislative Counsel to conduct interim study to identify unnecessary or obsolete provisions of Nevada Revised Statutes and submit any recommendations for legislation to 69th session of Nevada Legislature. (BDR R-1663) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 30: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of desirability and feasibility of dividing large school districts into smaller school districts. (BDR R- 1556) Porter - (Recd. 5/10) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 40: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of laws which require counties and cities to provide specific services. (BDR R-2039) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 41: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of cost and effectiveness of programs for treatment of abuse of alcohol and controlled substances. (BDR R-1254) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 50: Directs legislative commission to appoint committee to conduct interim study of feasibility of establishing comprehensive system for collection and management of data related to health care from public and private entities. (BDR R-1251) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 51: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study concerning regulation of taxicabs. (BDR R- 2130) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 52: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of system of parole and probation within State of Nevada. (BDR R-2134) (Recd.6/13) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 54: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of taxation of real property held in common- interest ownership. (BDR R-2121) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 56: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of feasibility of creating new county in area around Incline Village. (BDR R-1656) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 57: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of effects of competition in generation and sale of electric energy. (BDR R-1917) SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 59: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of treatment of mentally ill offenders in prison. (BDR R-2147) The following studies were eliminated by consensus: S.C.R. 51 S.C.R. 54 S.C.R. 56 S.C.R. 57, retail wheeling, will be handled by the Assembly S.B. 478 In discussion on integrating S.C.R. 14 with S.C.R. 40, Robert Erickson, Research Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau, indicated that S.C.R. 14 can be combined with S.C.R. 40 because S.C.R. 14 deals mainly with consolidation of services, and he felt that could easily be rolled in S.C.R. 40. He indicated the difference between S.C.R. 40 and A.C.R. 33 from the Assembly was that S.C.R. 40 is a broad study of the laws that require provision of services of local governments and the current allocation of responsibility among state and local governments in provision of services; A.C.R. 33 is a study of the same kinds of responsibilities but the emphasis there would be on the fiscal responsibility among state and local governments in the provision of services and programs. He noted the word "fiscal" was not included in S.C.R. 40. He said that S.C.R. 14 is to look at consolidating services and eliminating duplication of functions between state and local units of government when possible. Mr. Erickson recommended putting the consolidation of functions from S.C.R. 14 into S.C.R. 40 as the later is the broader vehicle. ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 33: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study to consider appropriate division of fiscal responsibility for programs and services between state and local governments. (BDR R-1618) Concern was expressed regarding the high Fiscal Note on S.C.R. 41, and Senator Rawson indicated the Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Abuse (BADA) people tell him that it is a critical study to them, because they feel they are not eligible for some of the current grants, because they are not able to demonstrate what is the most effective way to use the grants. He stated that there are other ways to do the study, it could be a staff study, and he does not think it is necessary to involve legislators. He said if there was a way to charge the agency to do the study, the committee would not have to go through this process. Senator Mathews asked if the $100,000 Fiscal Note on S.C.R. 41 was firm? Senator Rawson indicated that BADA stated that they could use several hundred thousand dollars. Senator Mathews indicated that she had heard that last session the Legislature had done a couple of studies on the treatment of alcohol and drug abuse. Senator McGinness said the Legislature had done a study on alcohol and drug abuse among prison and inmates, and another on the criminal justice system. Senator Raggio indicated that Senate Bill (S.B.) 342 could be a staff study and could be removed from the list. SENATE BILL 342: Creates legislative committee on federal and state mandates and establishes policy of taxation for State of Nevada. (BDR 17-1163) Mr. Erickson stated that he heard that Senate Bill 266 was going to be processed by the Senate, which would create a staff position to monitor federal mandates, and that person would make the information available to the commission in the next Legislature. He noted the bill would still have to be approved by the Senate. SENATE BILL 266: Requires research division of legislative counsel bureau to prepare certain information related to federal mandates and encroachments. (BDR 17-946) Senator Raggio said he felt they were pretty well committed to S.C.R. 40, S.C.R. 30, S.C.R. 52, and S.C.R. 59. SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED THAT THE COMMITTEE AUTHORIZE AND PROCESS S.C.R. 40 INCORPORATING THE PROVISIONS RELATING TO CONSOLIDATIONS IN S.C.R. 14, S.C.R. 30, S.C.R. 52, AND S.C.R. 59. SENATOR JAMES SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator Mathews asked if the Legislature had previously looked at anything like hospital costs? Mr. Erickson indicated that S.C.R. 50 was to take a look at the various ways that data is collected, make a report back to the permanent committee on health care, and to the next legislative session. Senator Rawson noted that S.C.R. 50 could easily be combined with the Health Care Planning study proposed in the Assembly, Assembly Bill (A.B.) 584. He said that they could be incorporated as a subcommittee to the interim health care committee, unless the Assembly does not choose that study. ASSEMBLY BILL 584: Creates advisory subcommittee on health care planning to provide advice to legislative committee on health care. (BDR 40-1061) Senator Raggio asked if Senator Mathews would like to have S.C.R. 50 listed as a potential addition. Senator Mathews said she would. Senator Raggio indicated that he wanted to propose an amendment to the studies just adopted to have a majority of the interim study committee members of each house concur in order to have their recommendations passed. SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED THAT ALL THE INTERIM STUDY MEASURES CONTAIN A PROVISION THAT ANY RECOMMENDATIONS MUST BE APPROVED BY A MAJORITY OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS OF EACH HOUSE. SENATOR JAMES SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MEASURE CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO INCLUDE S.C.R. 50 AS A FIRST ALTERNATE INTERIM STUDY. SENATOR TITUS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator McGinness opened the discussion on bills previously heard. SENATE BILL 342: Creates legislative committee on federal and state mandates and establishes policy of taxation for State of Nevada. (BDR 17-1163) Senator Raggio recommended that Senate Bill (S.B.) 342 be postponed. SENATE BILL 478: Creates legislative committee on data processing. (BDR 17- 1584) Senator Raggio asked if this is the same language that has been in existence? Senator McGinness said they took this language out of the public lands committee that places a representative from a governing body of a local political subdivision on the committee, and he stated that Senator O'Donnell has an amendment to change that. Senator Rawson said it was disturbing to him to see a proliferation of standing committees, although he noted that there has to be $100 million of computers going here and there, and it would be nice to have an oversight committee of that in order to have a picture of this problem. Senator Raggio said he thinks there is a need to have a committee of this kind, and he asked Mr. Erickson what is in existence now? Mr. Erickson replied that currently there is an advisory commission on computer applications to the legislative process, but, he noted, it is specifically for the use of computers in the Legislature. Senator Raggio proposed that the committee find out how the other house feels about this topic. He indicated that there is a need during the interim for some committee to have some kind of oversight on computer equipment. He suggested doing this before processing the bill. Senator McGinness agreed to visit with the other house on this matter. He then opened the discussion on Senate Bill 563 and Assembly Bill 279, the two measures that limit bill draft requests. SENATE BILL 563: Limits sources and number of requests which may be submitted to legislative counsel for preparation of legislative measures. ASSEMBLY BILL 279: Limits sources and number of requests which may be submitted to legislative counsel for preparation of legislative measures. (BDR 17-2063) Mr. Erickson summarized A.B. 279. Senator Coffin indicated that this bill is a perpetuation of the existing process; it refines the process somewhat, but it does not get away from the spiral that the Legislature is in; S.B. 563 "takes us where we want to go." He stated he will want to make some changes to the bill, but only to the extent of increasing the number of bills allowed each legislator, but he emphasized that every bill that comes to this Legislature should come through an elected official. Senator Raggio indicated that he agrees with Senator Coffin, but noted that in talking with Mr. Close in the other house, they do not want to go that far, that they feel the committee's bill is too limited, but Mr. Close did not say what they would do. Senator Raggio asked if there was some middle ground where, in addition to legislators, there could be a limit on the number of bill drafts available to the county, city, or public sectors? Senator McGinness said that Senator Coffin may have the compromise by letting legislators have a few more bill drafts to accommodate some of those people. Senator Rawson stated that the issue here is whether there should be a limit on constitutional officers. He noted that this bill creates a stronger legislator, and that there is good and bad to that, but if the constitutional officers are elected, have to stand accountable, and are conscientious, then there is easy access to the system. Senator James said he strongly supports S.B. 563, and noted that one of the things he was most surprised about when he came to the Legislature was that not only legislators could introduce bills. He continued, saying he was perturbed with the prefiling because now they can not only get bills drafted, but they can introduce them. He noted that constitutional officers are not elected to the Legislature, that they are elected to their job, and that legislators do not try to do their job. Senator Coffin stated that he thinks the assemblymen are unduly restricted, which is their point of contention. However, he said, they have to understand that senatorial districts, in many cases, are four times as big as theirs, and he believes they will always understand that senators will need more bill drafts, but if assemblymen are increased to 20 and senators to 40, senators will not be using all of their allocation. (Senator Rawson said that would total 1680.) Senator Coffin noted that number is about 600 less than what is requested, and he thinks people will compete to not introduce bills. Senator Raggio indicated that he thinks that is too many. He said one of the purposes is to try to limit the number of bill draft requests, and, also, each house must introduce the same number of bills in order to keep parity between the houses. He indicated they need to process the bill with some reasonable limits, get it over to the Assembly, and see if agreement can be reached in conference. He suggested sending it over the way it is, leaving some room to go to conference. Senator Rawson noted the following statistics: If 12 bills were processed, that would be 1008 bills between the two houses, cutting about in half what is presently introduced. If 15 bills were processed, it would be 1260. Senator McGinness suggested that if the committee amends A.B. 279 it would get the bill to conference that much faster. SENATOR RAWSON TO AMEND A.B. 279 WITH THE LIMITS OF S.B. 563 AND DO PASS. SENATOR JAMES SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator McGinness opened discussion on Assembly Concurrent Resolution 7. ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 7: Amends Joint Rules of Senate and Assembly for 68th legislative session to establish waiting period for voting on general appropriation bill. (BDR R- 1122) Senator Raggio indicated he still has a real problem with this bill, because he sees it adding 5 days to a session. He said he understands that people need time to look at it, but when legislators are trying to close down the session, this will be a real problem. He suggested allowing 24 hours. Senator Titus suggest that the bill be amended for 24 hours. SENATOR RAGGIO MOVE TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.C.R. 7 FOR 24 HOURS. SENATOR COFFIN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator McGinness opened discussion on Assembly Concurrent Resolution 11. ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 11: Amends Joint Rules of the Senate and Assembly to provide for enforcement of requirement that all meetings of legislative committees be open to public. (BDR R-442) Senator McGinness stated that when Lorne Malkiewich, Director, Legislative Counsel Bureau, testified he felt this measure was almost too complicated. Senator Raggio noted that Leola Armstrong, Lobbyist, Common Cause, Nevada, had also said that, and he agreed that it was overly complex. Ande Engleman, Private Citizen, also agreed, indicating she had testified that this was far too complicated. She stated she preferred a simpler process which would be a filing with leadership or something that goes to the Legislative Commission. However, she said her greater concern is that during a hearing in the Assembly Committee on Government Affairs, Brenda Erdoes, Legislative Counsel, Legislative Counsel Bureau, gave an opinion that she no longer believes that this Legislature falls under Nevada's open meeting law during the interim. Ms. Engleman indicated that this is the first time that she has been told that, and she emphasized her concern. Senator McGinness stated he did not think that is the intention of anybody, but that it would be appropriate for the committee to send a letter of intent to the Legislative Counsel Bureau. He said he did not think anyone on any interim committee feels that they are outside the open meeting law. Senator Raggio said he never heard that before, and confirmed with Ms. Engleman that Ms. Erdoes said "the interim committees do not fall under the opening meeting law." (Ms. Engleman confirmed.) He said he thinks the committees have assiduously noticed all those meetings. Ms. Engleman indicated that they had three problems during the last interim most of them having to do with the staff out of the Fiscal Analysis Department who had never worked under the open meeting law before. She said she and Mr. Malkiewich addressed those, and she filed her complaints with Mr. Malkiewich each time, not taking them to the attorney general. Ms. Engleman said a written opinion was requested, but what Ms. Erdoes said is that standing committees really never sine die. Senator Raggio asked what interim committees did not follow the open meeting law? Mr. Engleman replied that a taxation committee met twice without sending out agendas. Senator Raggio asked if that was during the interim? Ms. Engleman confirmed that and added that they had one incident with the commerce committee where the agendas did not get posted. Senator Raggio asked, "Were they intentional?" Ms. Engleman said, "As it was explained to me these were all staff problems." Senator McGinness stated he did not think any of those were intentional. Senator Raggio agreed with Senator McGinness, and he definitely endorses sending a letter of intent to all of the interim committees indicating that they should be in compliance with the open meeting law. Ms. Engleman asked what if they run into a problem? She stated that under the law, a complaint is filed with the attorney general's office, but the attorney general's office does not feel that they would entertain such a complaint against the Legislature. She indicated that whenever there has been a problem, she has always called Mr. Malkiewich, and they have worked things out between the two of them. Senator Raggio stated he has only had one instance called to his attention, having to do with a Review Journal reporter, regarding an item that was either on the agenda for a hearing, or taken off, or put back on. Ms. Engleman said that she has had four or five complaints filed with her, and that she had told them to take them to you, that she was no longer fronting for lobbyists on filing complaints. SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE A.C.R. 11. SENATOR COFFIN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** SENATOR RAGGIO MOVED THAT THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AND OPERATIONS SEND A LETTER OF INTENT TO ALL INTERIM COMMITTEES INDICATING THAT THE POLICY OF THE LEGISLATURE IS THAT ALL INTERIM COMMITTEE MEETINGS ARE UNDER THE OPEN MEETING LAW, AND ALL COMMITTEES SHOULD COMPLY WITH APPROPRIATE NOTICE AND CONDUCT. SENATOR JAMES SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator McGinness opened discussion on Assembly Concurrent Resolution (A.C.R.) 39. ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 39: Designates Director of Legislative Counsel Bureau as energy retrofit coordinator for building occupied by legislative branch of government. (BDR R-2067) SENATOR TITUS MOVED TO DO PASS A.C.R. 39. SENATOR RAGGIO SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator McGinness opened discussion of Assembly Joint Resolution (A.J.R.) 21. ASSEMBLY JOINT RESOLUTION 21: Proposes to amend Nevada constitution to provide for limited annual legislative sessions. (BDR C-8) Senator Coffin stated he would like to get the two committees together. Senator Raggio stated: ...I've had some discussions with Bob Price, and I told him, and I think he acted with this understanding, that it would really be a problem to have both of these [bills] on the ballot at the same time. So I assured him that I would lend my support next session to having this processed so that the one would go on the ballot limiting to the 120 days, ... his bill doesn't have the other items in it, but if the other one passes, then it would have to go on the ballot again. This one, if it passed, [would] go on the ballot 2 years after. The only thing I didn't talk to him about, and I don't think he objects, is to putting in the other things that we processed, that is, the Legislature commencing in February and the Governor sending us a budget 2 or 3 weeks before. ... I will ask Mr. Price if he would agree with that, and I'll report back to you. But that's his understanding, at least with me. Senator Coffin asked if the Assembly had passed out Senator Raggio's bill? Senator McGinness indicated that they did. Mr. Erickson indicated that there were three dissenting votes so it was almost unanimous in the Assembly. Senator Raggio said he told Mr. Price that he would lend his support to having the bill processed next session whether he is here or not. It was agreed to hold A.J.R. 21. Senator McGinness opened the discussion on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 195. ASSEMBLY BILL 195: Requires immediate disclosure on weekly list of bill draft requests of name of legislator who requests preparation of legislative measure. (BDR 17-15) Ms. Engleman said she has had many complaints, from legislators and the public, that the information is not getting printed on the bill. She noted that a few bills have had the requestor's or organization's name printed on them, but not all of them. Senator Raggio stated it was his understanding that until the bill is introduced, unless the legislator agrees, the name does not appear, but that when the bill is introduced the name should appear on the bill. Senator McGinness suggested that they hold this bill, and that he will talk with Mr. Erickson or Mr. Malkiewich to see if legislation is actually needed. Senator James asked if the Legislature will formally pass the concurrent resolution that the committee is proposing. Senator McGinness said that was the intent, noting that they have to amend S.C.R. 40 and S.C.R. 14 together, S.C.R. 59 needs an amendment, and Senator Porter has some amendments on S.C.R. 30 to change the makeup of that committee and to add more parents. Senator James asked if Senator McGinness wanted him to tell him what is the amendment in on S.C.R. 59? Senator McGinness advised him to work with staff. The meeting adjourned at 4:18 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Mavis Scarff, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Mike McGinness, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations June 22, 1995 Page