MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY Sixty-eighth Session June 29, 1995 The Senate Committee on Judiciary was called to order by Chairman Mark A. James, at 1:45 p.m., on Thursday, June 29, 1995, in Room 224 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Mark A. James, Chairman Senator Jon C. Porter, Vice Chairman Senator Maurice Washington Senator Mike McGinness Senator Ernest E. Adler Senator Dina Titus Senator O. C. Lee GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT: Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Washoe County Senatorial District No. 4 STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Allison Combs, Senior Research Analyst Lori Story, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: William A. Prezant, Lobbyist, The Doctors' Company Rick Dunn, Executive Director, Nevada Coalition Allied for Patient Protection Bill Bradley, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association Victoria D. Riley, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association Sheila A. Smith, Deputy Attorney General, Human Resources Division, Office of the Attorney General Fred L. Hillerby, Lobbyist, Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company James L. Wadhams, Lobbyist, American Insurance Association Alice Molasky, Commissioner, Division of Insurance, Department of Business and Industry Senator James announced only one bill was agendized for the day, Assembly Bill (A.B.) 520. Although the bill has not been referred to the committee yet, he said, the committee will hear it and possibly take action to be ratified later on the floor. ASSEMBLY BILL 520: Makes various changes to provisions relating to actions for medical malpractice. Senator James noted members of the committee should be familiar with many provisions of the bill, since it has been widely discussed in both houses. He requested that members of each of the three parties involved participate while the committee reviewed the provisions. Those who came forward included William A. Prezant, Lobbyist, The Doctors' Company, who explained he represents one of the medical malpractice insurers in the state; Rick Dunn, Executive Director, Nevada Coalition Allied for Patient Protection (NevCAP), who declared he represents a coalition of physicians, insurers and other health care providers and organizations; and Bill Bradley, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association (NTLA). Mr. Prezant explained the bill is the result of vigorous negotiations between the various interests and has been heard several times before the Assembly Committee on Judiciary which amended the bill in accordance with proposals from the parties. He said the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means also reviewed the bill due to the fiscal impact. Mr. Bradley reviewed section 1, which he stated deals with emergency obstetrical care. He explained if a pregnant woman delivers a baby in the emergency ward and the person treating her has not provided previous prenatal care, the care rendered is given in good faith, and damages to the baby are reasonably related to a lack of prenatal care, the person rendering assistance will not be liable. The only time there will be liability, he said, is when there is gross negligence associated with treatment in the emergency room. Mr. Bradley stated Assemblyman John Carpenter had requested the provision due to concern women would arrive at rural emergency rooms without having had any prenatal care, or who may have had prior drug or other prenatal problems. According to Mr. Bradley, section 1, subsection 4 provides that a retired physician rendering voluntary care to indigents will not be liable unless his care amounts to gross negligence. Senator James inquired if Senate Bill (S.B.) 130 has been passed by the Assembly. SENATE BILL 130: Clarifies immunity from liability granted to volunteers of charitable organizations. Victoria D. Riley, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association, responded it has been passed by the committee and has gone to the floor of the Assembly. Senator James asked if A.B. 520 includes the same provisions as S.B. 130. Mr. Bradley answered they are slightly different. Senator James noted that in an amendment to S.B. 130 to provide immunity it was made clear that a volunteer would include physicians, and the immunity from liability would be absolute. He asked how it will help to add the language in subsection 4 to A.B. 520. Mr. Bradley replied S.B. 130 applies to a volunteer working for a charitable organization, while section 1, subsection 4 of A.B. 520 will broaden immunity for physicians performing any sort of voluntary work, not necessarily for a charitable organization. He affirmed that is why the standard is different. According to Mr. Bradley, section 2 will add 20 members of both the Nevada State Medical Association and the Nevada Trial Lawyers' Association to the screening panel. He said section 3 will address a desire that the preferred practice is to submit an affidavit to the screening panel. He acknowledged he and Mr. Prezant have some disagreement over the language. Mr. Bradley stated: When the Legislature first considered this, there was a determination made that the decision to file an affidavit with your presentation was left up to the attorney. We believe that should still be the case, and the language ... [is] inconsistent where it says the complaint must contain a clear and concise statement of the facts ... and then subsection (b) is an affidavit supporting the allegations of the complaint. Mr. Bradley declared he opposes requiring an affidavit. He opined the language can say "may," but he concluded no complaint will have to be filed and both interests will be protected with lines 7 through 9 on page 3 in which there is a provision that a complaint may be summarily dismissed. Mr. Prezant agreed that some plaintiffs' attorneys will submit a complaint without any expert medical testimony. He said they often wait until the answer is filed by the defendants and then they file all the affidavits in reply to the answer. He proposed that a certain obligation be imposed to try to get all the information out in the first instance, since the plaintiff has two opportunities to the single response allowed to the defendant. Mr. Prezant agreed that would be fair. He stated, "We didn't say that a complaint shall be dismissed if it's not filed with an affidavit, because that puts the insurance division in a position where they have to make a decision." He suggested providing that the medical-legal screening panel may summarily dismiss the complaint, which will give the panel some latitude to stop the "sandbagging" practices being utilized by attorneys he considers "not the better" ones. He reiterated his opinion claimants should be required to file affidavits with their complaints. According to Mr. Prezant, that would put attorneys on notice that there is a certain obligation to file the affidavit, yet the screening panel will not be required to dismiss the case if an affidavit has not been filed. He declared that will "even the playing field." Senator James inquired what kind of case will be addressed by such requirements. Mr. Dunn stated, "On this particular issue with the affidavit submitted by a medical expert, one of the concerns brought up by the Assembly judiciary committee was certain individuals who may not be able to afford that medical expert." He voiced the understanding that usage of the word "may" was to deal with such situations in which the person could not afford the affidavit. Otherwise, he said, the clear, concise statement and the affidavit would normally be a part of the complaint. If that is the analysis, Senator James stated, the only word continuing to bother him is the word "summarily." Mr. Prezant agreed to striking "summarily." Senator James suggested it may be necessary to say, "that absent a finding of some circumstance or reason why the affidavit couldn't be given, the panel could dismiss." He pointed out they could not dismiss if there was a bona fide reason why the affidavit was not included. Mr. Bradley responded that does not address his concern. He stated, "My concern then is now you've got somebody making a finding, and the insurance commissioner's office does not want to make a finding." He said, "The statutes say that lawyers cannot quote the law in the screening panel. We're not allowed to cite law or legal analysis." However, he charged, it is done all the time. Mr. Bradley asserted as soon as A.B. 520 passes, if an expert affidavit is not included, lawyers will cite the measure and will ask the panel to dismiss the case on that basis. He opined if the language says "must contain" as written on page 3, line 1, it will cause problems. Senator James again asked what circumstances might exist when an affidavit will be unattainable. Mr. Bradley says if a person has a meritorious case but does not bring it to the attorney until there are only 2 weeks left, it is nearly impossible to obtain an affidavit because the attorney nearly always has to go out of state because local physicians refuse assistance. He noted when poor people attempt to file complaints in pro per, they often fail to include affidavits. He said a series of examples are contained in Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) chapter 41 which do not require expert testimony. Mr. Bradley voiced the opinion it is best to file an affidavit, but he asserted it should not be mandatory. He pointed out the problem does not arise often enough to really affect the findings, because only 18 percent of the cases brought to the panel are successful. He stated it is very difficult even with the best expert, and if the plaintiff cannot find an expert, the defense lawyer should not be given the advantage to simply call for dismissal. He declared, "The `must' language in line 1 is too onerous on people presenting their claims to the panel." Mr. Bradley insisted the panel must be trusted. He averred the three lawyers and three doctors on the panel have done a good job so far. Mr. Prezant responded the word "must" has always been in the statute, so any change will eliminate the requirement that a clear and concise statement of the case must be made. He stated there has never been a complaint in which the attorney moved to dismiss a case because of failure to have a clear and concise statement of the case. Regarding whether the panel may summarily dismiss a case, under what circumstance, he opined the panel will respond appropriately if there is a reason such as those cited by Mr. Bradley. He opined the present wording does not permit the panel to arbitrarily dismiss a case. Mr. Dunn indicated testimony and discussions he has heard inclines him to believe the affidavit must be included as part of the concise statement, that both parts must be filed. As a matter of clarification, he suggested new language be included to show the panel may dismiss the complaint, if that is the desire of the Legislature. Senator James noted some actions require verified complaints, but rarely are they verified by someone other than the plaintiff, which would make this measure unique. Mr. Prezant responded, in a medical malpractice case, there is a statute that requires testimony of a medical expert in order prove a prima facie case except in four instances which are exceptions to the rule. He explained the prima facie case requires expert testimony, so the attempt is being made in A.B. 520 to require that "all the cards be played on the table at the first instance." He reiterated it will not be a mandatory dismissal because it will be left to the discretion of the three lawyers and three doctors to make that decision. Mr. Bradley made a suggestion which he hoped will satisfy both sides. He said: If we omit lines 5 and 6 ... then it would say the complaint must contain a clear and concise statement of the facts. Then we go to the new language, `A screening panel may,' either summarily or not,`dismiss a complaint which is filed without an affidavit....' Then we have both sides of the coin there. You're not required to have an affidavit, but it's in the statutes that says, look now, if you don't, it may be dismissed. And I think that takes care of both sides of the coin. Senator James proposed part of line 5 and 6 will have to be included into lines 7 and 8. He suggested: The screening panel may ... dismiss a complaint which is filed without an affidavit submitted by expert supporting the allegations of the complaint submitted by the medical expert. Mr. Prezant agreed to such wording. Mr. Bradley insisted the burden must not be placed upon the insurance commissioner to ascertain whether the affidavit supports the allegations of the complaint. Senator James opined it would not. He suggested including a period after the word "malpractice" on line 4, and removal of the word "and." He said on line 7 it would read, "A screening panel may dismiss a complaint which is filed without an affidavit submitted by a medical expert supporting the allegations of the complaint." Mr. Prezant reiterated that would be agreeable. Mr. Bradley interjected, "Just to make sure that we agree that the intent is not that the insurance commissioner [will] have to make the decision on the quality of the affidavit." Senator James pointed out the bill will designate that the screening panel make that decision. Mr. Bradley stated the Division of Insurance had some concerns regarding confidentiality of members who serve on specific panels, and thus agreed to the new wording on lines 11 and 12, page 4. He added lines 31 through 34 resolve another matter of concern. Mr. Bradley called the next section of new language at the bottom of page 4 through the top of page 5 the "collateral source rule." He noted that for any amount paid by a third-party payor, such as a medical insurer, the amount that the plaintiff receives in a judgment will be reduced by that amount unless there is a statutory lien that the third-party payor exerted upon the proceeds of the judgment. He explained if there is a subrogation agreement or an agreement to repay the insurance company, the judge will not reduce the amount. Mr. Bradley voiced approval of the new language because it will require the plaintiff's lawyers to notify any third-party payor that in order to protect the client, a lien must be provided to be considered by the judge. The amount returned by the jury will not be reduced by the amount of the lien, he said. Mr. Bradley added there is agreed upon amendatory language which will protect the interests of the state. Mr. Prezant stated the Division of Welfare was concerned that even though the burden would be placed upon the plaintiff to notify the party that may have subrogation rights, language should be included to require notification of the claimant by the insured. He proposed an addition at the end of line 5 on page 5 to add, "Claimant shall notify any statutory lien-holder of the existence of the cause of action." He said the Division of Welfare also agrees to that language. Sheila A. Smith, Deputy Attorney General, Human Resources Division, Office of the Attorney General, affirmed his statement. The next section to be reviewed by Mr. Bradley was section 6, subsection 4 on page 5. He indicated it provides that when a finder of fact decides future economic damages based on evidence, he will reduce the amount to present value. At that point, he said, the claimant has the right to elect either present value of the future economic damages in a lump sum, or he can agree to receive periodic payments provided through an annuity. Senator James inquired what standard is used to discount to present value for the court to approve the actions of the trier of fact. Mr. Bradley responded in his experience there has always been a motion for a new trial or to amend the verdict. He stated if either side believes there was a problem with the verdict it can move to amend the judgment. Senator James pointed out that would be a post-judgment motion, but he interpreted A.B. 520 to provide for approval by the court of a pre-verdict determination. He asked, "If you had a verdict, and then the judge would enter a judgment on the verdict after he approves the discount to present value, is that the way you see it?" Mr. Prezant and Mr. Bradley replied, "Yes." Senator James surmised, "The court would be acting under the same kind of standard as would set aside a jury's verdict," which he opined would be a very high standard. Mr. Bradley agreed and indicated it would be the same standard a judge would use to amend a jury's verdict. For the record Mr. Bradley declared: This does not make admissible annuity evidence. All this says is that after the jury has reduced the amount to present value, the claimant may then select the annuity provider and go forward with the election of an annuity. And the other thing I want to make clear on the record is, this was never intended to waive any tax benefits of the qualified assignment of an annuity purchase. Mr. Prezant voiced agreement with the tax portion, but stated he is not entirely sure that the annuity evidence portion is correct. Continuing, Mr. Bradley pointed out there are definitions of collateral sources in section 6, subsection 6. The next portion refers to claims, he said. Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Washoe County Senatorial District No. 4, testified on behalf of the Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor. He expressed gratitude that language involving the closed claims study in medical malpractice is included in A.B. 520. Senator Townsend declared his committee has done substantial research on the problem as a part of its analysis of jurisdictional insurance rates in general. He acknowledged the jurisdiction over malpractice would be in the purview of the judiciary committee. Senator Townsend called attention to areas of the bill which he feels are extremely important. He said: First and foremost, under section 7 is the first sentence where `the interim finance committee is hereby directed to contract with an independent organization,' and this is where we must be very careful, `to conduct, in association with the authority of the insurance commissioner as set forth in [chapter] 679B of NRS, a study of claims in actions for medical malpractice....' The issue that we must be very clear on is that the only ... authority that has jurisdiction to answer and look at a claim in insurance is the insurance commissioner. So we have to make sure that ... if IFC [Interim Finance Committee] is going to contract with a group that that authority of the insurance commissioner is transferable so that that contracting group can, in fact, go in and look at those claims. Senator Townsend related he had been informed by the Legislative Counsel Bureau (LCB) and numerous "hallway authorities" that is included in the language. He reiterated he wants the record to show "that the authority of the insurance commissioner to go into the claims of a company that writes medical malpractice insurance will be transferable to an independent group that is contracting." Senator Townsend went on to declare: The other thing that is crucial is that in perhaps sending legislative intent, either through our minutes or through a letter of intent from this committee, an appropriate definition go into that letter or those minutes that would assure the insurance companies that IFC is not going to contract with someone who may have a relationship with one of the competitors of the group that you're going to be looking at. That obviously would be unfair, we don't need to finance marketing research of one company ... to the detriment of another company. They must be completely independent from all the companies, and that would be crucial. Senator Townsend opined the language throughout page 6 is definitive and broad enough to get to the heart of the matter. Turning to section 8, Senator Townsend submitted $75,000 may be totally insufficient to complete a study. He asserted the goal is to be sure the study is made. He suggested a letter be sent to both the finance and ways and means committees requesting a larger appropriation. Senator Townsend pointed out areas under section 7, subsection 2 on page 6 should be broad enough. He advised the committee there are many things that go into setting a premium rate, and the legislative body must make an effort to determine what components drive those rates in order to determine what policy to adopt. He asserted, "And in order to do that a study of this magnitude, and of this breadth and depth, must be undertaken." Senator Townsend offered the opinion it would be very easy for a committee such as commerce and labor to pass a no-fault bill, or it would be easy for a judiciary committee to pass tort reform because insurance premium rates are going up for medical malpractice and the result of that is too much litigation. But, he reiterated, a legitimate study must be made to determine every component that drives the premiums in medical malpractice. According to Senator Townsend, the study is long overdue and the language in A.B. 520 should cover everything that needs to be considered. He repeated his appeal to put letters of intent on the record and send them to the appropriate finance committee. Senator Porter asked, "Sections 7 and 8 appear to be new and ... since it's not italicized, does that mean it's not going to be put in NRS?" Senator Townsend replied, "If it's not italicized it won't be because it's an independent or an interim effort. Traditionally we don't put those in because they go by the wayside after the study is completed." In response to Senator Adler, Senator Townsend repeated his assertion it is crucial to perform a study that is broad and deep enough for all parties involved to make legitimate decisions on all the facts by the 1997 session of the Legislature. He admonished the parties to agree to abide by the result of the study before it is started. Senator Townsend acknowledged not all parties may be completely satisfied, but, he asserted, they all should have adequate opportunity to offer input and to make an attempt to agree on the result. He noted they may determine there is too much litigation, or too much money may be involved and there must be tort reform, or they may feel there is too much bad medical practice going on and the board of medical examiners needs to require improvement and take hard action against those who do not improve. He added the study could conclude there are too many problems in the insurance field, such as over-reserving. Only a study of such magnitude can offer those determinations, he concluded. Mr. Prezant presented the committee with copies of a proposed amendment (Exhibit C) for review. He noted language in the amendment provides for the IFC to authorize and fund the Division of Insurance to contract with an independent consulting actuary to make the study. He agreed with Senator Townsend that insurance companies are only obligated to open their files to the insurance commissioner, and the first paragraph of his proposed amendment will meet that concern. Mr. Prezant offered the opinion it is important for the study to be conducted by someone who is knowledgeable, has the necessary expertise in medical malpractice and has an actuarial background. He said it may not be necessary for that person to review the files, but he would set the protocols for reviews and he would be the responsible person. The second paragraph of the amendment, Mr. Prezant said, deals with an advisory committee comprised of representatives of the IFC, the Nevada Trial Lawyers Association, the Nevada Medical Association, the Nevada Hospital Association, and the insurance industry. He pointed out the goal of the study is to determine what is driving malpractice insurance premiums in the state. He explained those involved in that goal should participate as part of the advisory committee and try to come to an agreement on how to deal with the issue prior to the start of the next legislative session. Senator Adler asked why the advisory committee is necessary in addition to the IFC. Mr. Prezant responded it will be helpful to have the interests that lobby the Legislature about the issues involved in a dialogue prior to the session, rather than during the session. Mr. Prezant indicated paragraph 3 of the amendment deals with criteria. He voiced concern that the lobbyists and others concerned do not know what drives costs of insurance premiums because they are not actuaries. He acknowledged each has his own point of view or agenda on the matter, but ultimately a certified actuary would be the best person to determine the criteria. He stated, "Section 3 deals with the criteria in a permissive sense rather than a mandatory sense." Senator Porter asked if the amendment regarding the advisory committee is a compromise as a result of the meetings held by Assembly committees, or if the amendment is something new. Fred L. Hillerby, Lobbyist, Northwestern Mutual Life (NML) Insurance Company, responded that is an integral part of the study. He admitted the parties have not reached concurrence on every aspect of the study, but the parties have agreed to a claims study. Mr. Hillerby suggested, rather than attempting to define all the elements of the study in the statute, it may be better to have experts work with the Division of Insurance to determine what elements should be covered, and how they should be stated, in a request for proposal (RFP). As an example, Mr. Hillerby called attention to the sentence beginning "Only aggregate data ... may be disclosed...." on line 9 on page 7 of A.B. 520. He voiced agreement with the sentence, but then he noted line 22 on page 6 and asked how one aggregates the "names ... of defendants." He declared the name of the defendant should have very little to do with the issue of what is driving the price of premiums for medical malpractice insurance. He asserted suits and awards, and their frequency and severity, drive the cost. Senator James asked how it will be handled if the same person is the defendant over and over again. Mr. Hillerby asked how that would be done "in the aggregate," according to the bill. As for the doctor who is repeatedly a defendant, Mr. Hillerby said by law that must be reported to the Board of Medical Examiners. Mr. Hillerby reiterated his belief it has never been the intent to disclose the names of defendants. Mr. Bradley concurred, and explained that is why the language on page 7, subsection 5, indicates all identifying data must be kept confidential. He voiced agreement with Senator James that if several claims are being brought repeatedly against individual physicians, the information should be available without identifying the physician so that it will become evident insurers are having a problem. Senator James said, "If you have the name, you can find out that doctor X has 14 claims against him in a 10-year period, whereas the average doctor got none, or .1, and ... that helps policy makers decide that there is a problem with a few bad doctors spoiling the barrel for all the good doctors." He surmised the statistics could be very helpful, as long as the doctors names are not released, only the fact that a certain percentage of doctors have been involved in a certain number of malpractice cases. Mr. Prezant interjected that data is presently available through the physicians' data bank. He iterated if the purpose of the study is to determine what is driving the price of medical malpractice premiums up, it will not be a physician who has several claims against him, because, he asserted, that physician will not be able to obtain any insurance. He declared an insurer will not provide insurance to such a person. Senator James indicated the insurance company has to raise rates when they have had to pay many claims, which will be done before the questionable physician's insurance is canceled. Senator James suggested such a physician may go from one insurer to another, at higher rates each time, before the insurers refuse all coverage. Mr. Prezant declared an expert actuary should be hired to make the determination what criteria should be used. Senator James voiced concern with simply allowing an expert free reign to determine the criteria. He pointed out Senator Townsend noted it could be any one of the interested parties, doctors, lawyers, insurance companies, or a combination, who are contributing to the rising costs. Senator James stated knowing if there are bad doctors could be helpful. Senator Townsend reiterated the importance of understanding that the seriousness of the problem is driving multiple public policy questions. He pointed out this is not just an isolated problem in one session. Senator Townsend voiced concern with page 2 of the amendment regarding open claims, or closed claims subject to a court order of confidentiality, being reported to the insurer on a form. He stated: If we insulate, either through an actuary or, in this case, a form for open claims, I think there's always going to be a question in everyone's mind, was there something there that we should have found. I'm not sure there is. But those two things, I think, would beg the question. And that's a concern to our committee with regard to the availability of this information. Senator James voiced agreement with Senator Townsend's remarks. Mr. Hillerby said his company checks any applicant's record in the national data bank to see what his claims experience has been, and if he has been a Nevada physician for a while, the company checks with the Board of Medical Examiners. He stated the information is readily available if a doctor has had more malpractice problems than his share. Mr. Hillerby stated, "The concern about the open claims ... is that there is data regarding strategy ... and whoever it is that is looking at the file is told that they've got to maintain confidentiality." He added another concern is the dilemma posed when the Legislature mandates that an affidavit must be filled in that has been gleaned from open files or closed files, because, on the other hand, the court mandates that confidentiality must be maintained. He asked, "Who do we obey in that kind of a conflict?" Mr. Hillerby proposed that the insurance company be allowed to fill in the data that discloses the information in the sealed claim. He pointed out the insurance commissioner has the authority to perform an audit on open or closed claims to determine whether the insurer has given accurate information when he fills in the form. Senator Townsend responded if that is the case he would not have had to pay the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) the millions of dollars in taxes he has paid them over the years because he could have simply told them that he would only show them what he wanted to show them. He asserted the IRS should have the ability to review any documents, just as the information regarding funds used to pay claims by insurance companies should be open to review. Senator Townsend declared, "This comes directly out of the pocket of people who use medical services." He said the information should be accessible because the funds used to pay claims by insurance companies are derived from premiums. Mr. Hillerby agreed it is important to have as much data as possible. He declared his concern is with the claims that have been closed by the courts. He said, "We've talked about the frequency and severity of claims for each year for this 10- year study, the reserving practices.... [The] data you need to accomplish that is part of the RFP ... process." Mr. Hillerby asserted it is necessary to review what effect the medical-legal screening panel has had, the decisions, the amount of awards, the other costs involved, and what happens after those rulings come down. He added it is also important to know the number of cases for which there was never a judgment because those costs also drive the system. Senator James noted an actuary is an expert on insurance and on risk. He stated the actuary usually helps insurance companies decide whether to accept a given risk. Mr. Hillerby responded the actuary performs a host of activities, such as advising clients what insurance they should carry. Mr. Prezant interjected there is an actuary who works for the Division of Insurance for the state who reviews all filings made by insurance companies to determine whether they are appropriate. He said the actuary uses criteria all certified actuaries must use to make a determination of whether the filings are justifiable. Senator James suggested it would be limiting to have the study done by an actuary. Mr. Prezant replied you need to have someone who understands the data if you want good data. He declared the actuary will understand the data in an insurance company better than anyone else. Senator Townsend pointed out the bill provides for an oversight committee comprised of members of both the Senate and Assembly Committees on Judiciary and of the Senate Committee on Finance and the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means. He conjectured those who will bid on the task will attempt to convince the oversight committee of their qualifications and that they have the right personnel to carry out the task. He asserted, "The marketplace will come in and try to determine what's the best way to do this. To dictate that it's only an actuary may carve out part of the market that we would want to consider. I'm not sure you'd want to do that. " Mr. Prezant responded, "I think that this is a significant public policy issue, and I think if you're going to ultimately get the kind of data that you need to obtain from an insurance company, it would be appropriate to have someone who understands reserving practices." He asserted a lawyer would not understand the matter. He insisted: If you really want to get to the real nut of all of this, if the trial lawyer's saying it's the reserving practices, if the insurance companies and the doctors [are] saying it's the severity and frequency of claims, and we're all trying to figure out to the satisfaction of this body, the Legislature, what is driving the cost, then I can tell you that an actuary is the best person, and the market place doesn't have anything to do with it if you're trying to get to the bottom line here. Senator Townsend replied: And I may not disagree with you, but I think your argument ... is at the wrong forum. I think that the argument that you're making, which is a good one, should be at the IFC forum where they're going to make that determination. And ... for us to narrow this bill now, I think is premature. That can be done at the level which I previously stated. But I don't think statutorily you ought to narrow this bill at this time. I think that you can argue that case in front of the members of this advisory board as well as IFC. According to Mr. Prezant, another change included in the amendment involves the lack of inclusion of the incident reports, which is included in A.B. 520 on page 6 at line 16. He explained it deals with all reports of medical malpractice filed during the period, regardless of whether a claim was filed. He said incident reports are those of a risk-management exercise utilized by insurance companies. He stated physicians are encouraged to let the insurance company know anytime there is a disagreement with a patient that they believe could lead to a claim of malpractice. He declared that is a practice-management tool so the malpractice insurer can advise the doctor how to relate to the patient. He noted that has nothing to do with a malpractice claim, it is merely a report of an incident, and it does not drive the cost of the insurance. It is not reviewed by any actuary to make a determination of what the premium should be, he said, it is a risk-management device. Mr. Prezant opined the inclusion of incident reports will add nothing except to confuse the issues. He stated there are countless numbers of reports. He asserted those will be of no benefit to a study of malpractice. Senator Titus exclaimed she could not believe doctors would report to their insurers that they may be charged with malpractice. Mr. Prezant responded it is required. Voicing disagreement with Mr. Prezant, Mr. Bradley opined incident reports are very important because they reflect when physicians believe they may have committed malpractice. As an example, he said, as an attorney if he failed to file papers in a legal situation in a timely manner under the statute of limitations, as soon as he realized he had made the mistake he would call his insurance company and report the problem. He reiterated it is very important to ascertain the status of medical malpractice in the state. To Senator Titus' observance that it would be interesting to know how many times doctors think they will be sued, compared to how many times they actually are sued, Mr. Bradley said, "I certainly think so." Senator James voiced agreement that the perceived claims should be juxtaposed with filings to get a better grasp of the problem. Senator James expressed concern regarding confidentiality. He pointed out the information cannot be used in a market context. Also, he said, no information can be revealed which would jeopardize attorney-client privilege or a work-product privilege. He stated a claim file is essentially a litigation file, with all its analysis, and it should be held inviolate. He noted he did not find that addressed in the bill. Mr. Bradley responded lines 8 and 9 on page 7 declares all identifying data must be kept confidential which he asserted will provide adequate protection of confidentiality. However, he took issue with Mr. Prezant's proposal to keep the individual insurers confidential on the basis it is important to know what is happening with each company and what the differences are between them. Senator James reiterated his concern that the client work-product be kept totally privileged and confidential and cannot be revealed in any way. Mr. Bradley stated it is envisioned that the survey be done as it was in Minnesota. In Minnesota, he explained, the insurance commissioner devised a survey form with 26 questions, which was then used by examiners who went into each company and filled out the form. He noted there was nothing concerning strategy in any of the questions in either Minnesota or in the study being contemplated for Nevada. Mr. Bradley alleged no information regarding strategy is being reported, the Minnesota examiners consider only reserves and the effect the panel had on the case. He asserted the information listed in section 7 of A.B. 520 is what should be included in a survey form. He declared there will be no way for an attorney to learn anything about his particular case from the survey forms. Regarding confidentiality, Mr. Bradley stated his belief the reason for signing a confidentiality agreement is to avoid embarrassment for the physician and to prevent the attorney from "grabbing headlines." He suggested confidentiality could be waived between his client and the insurance company in order to do the study without affecting confidentiality. Mr. Hillerby voiced concern because, he said, whatever questionnaire is developed, somebody will have read all the evidence in the work documents. He stated the insurer is always required to submit information and attest to it by an officer of the company. He said, "We can extract the data they want, swear to it, and the insurance commissioner, if you feel like that's necessary, could do a spot check to be sure the data was completed correctly." Senator James responded confidentiality must be tight. He noted there is nothing contained in the bill about confidentiality agreements or unlawful disclosure. He agreed it is a matter of concern if someone looks at a litigation file, and he asked if the bill needs to be strengthened. He averred, "That's treading on very protected area." Mr. Bradley responded the issue is not trying to learn the strategy, the issue is trying to extract specific information. He reiterated his opinion confidentiality is protected, but expressed a willingness to go as far as necessary to insure that there is confidentiality. He stated the people who will be filling out survey forms will not be actuaries or attorneys, they will be people who are trained to fill out the forms. Mr. Bradley suggested those people will not be interested in the strategy of the case, they will only be interested in the reserves, the results of the screening panel, and what happened after the case went to the panel. He proposed that the litigation file be separated. Senator James suggested it may be useful to add another amendment to indicate that attorney-client privilege, and work-product information, will be kept inviolate. He pointed out there is no privilege with tax documents or the records that underlie them, but the person has an absolute privilege regarding mental impressions. Mr. Bradley responded another privilege should be fees for both defense and plaintiff attorneys. Senator James indicated his agreement. Mr. Bradley expressed concern regarding line 27 on page 6 regarding inclusion of attorney fees in the study. Mr. Prezant interjected, "This is language where there would be no individual identification, and hence there would be no disclosure as to what particular plaintiff, or what particular [person] paid those fees. There would be no identification." He noted it will be similar to the fact that there is no identification of the individual physician. Senator James asked if that refers to the fees incurred by the insurance company, or the fees paid by a plaintiff. Mr. Bradley responded it will include both. He said the claims file will not reflect the fee, but, he suggested, it is unnecessary for the fees to be included because it is known they will be between 25 percent and 40 percent. Senator James asked how a claim file will disclose the fees of the plaintiff. Mr. Bradley replied that is not included. Senator James noted that means only the costs paid by the insurance company to defend the client will be known. Mr. Prezant suggested there may be other documents with that information. Senator James declared, "I understand that. It's the attorney's fees and legal costs associated with the claim, and the defense of the claim, and I think that's relevant." Senator James asked how court-ordered sealed files will be handled. Mr. Bradley replied, "Those are the most important files, because those are the big-number cases." Senator James explained he wanted to know what power the insurance commissioner has to break a court order directing that the files are sealed. Mr. Bradley responded there is normally a stipulation as part of the settlement agreement, and the court does not order that the files be sealed. He said: What normally happens in this case, as part of the release, the plaintiff and the defendant agree to a confidentiality order. There's no stipulation in front of the court. The release agreement is the document. And I feel satisfied that if information is kept confidential ... we are living within the confines of that law. If there's a problem with that, we'll go out and get waivers from our clients, every one of them, to release that information. According to Mr. Bradley, the concern is that lawyers will release the figures to the press, which will embarrass the physicians and make headlines for the attorneys. Senator James responded that issue will have to be addressed. Mr. Hillerby interjected many times in the negotiation process, the doctor negotiates the settlement with the understanding his name will not be revealed. The bill, he noted, directs that the names be included in the study. Mr. Bradley pointed out the case is on file in the district court, and the names are known. He declared the confidentiality order is only to stop the amount of the award from being made public. He said the case in district court is not sealed. James L. Wadhams, Lobbyist, American Insurance Association, identified his clients as those who do, or potentially would, write medical malpractice insurance coverage. He called the issue being discussed ironic because he discussed it earlier in the morning with the chairman with regard to Senate Bill (S.B.) 505. SENATE BILL 505: Makes various changes in regulation of insurance. Mr. Wadhams said a senator from the commerce and labor committee had proposed conducting the study under the authority of the insurance commissioner. He stated the confidentiality agreements deal with disclosure to other parties, not to regulatory officials or to the IRS. He said the data is available through the insurance commissioner. Although he agreed the point made by Mr. Bradley regarding names is valid, Mr. Wadhams declared it is not germane to this situation. He agreed the point is to learn the amount of money involved. He explained when insurance companies submit rate applications, they must have all the data incorporated into the rate applications, which he surmised will make it easy to obtain the data. He concurred there must be adequate protection regarding confidentiality to avoid "leaks in the system." Mr. Wadhams called attention to the fact no controls on the contracting parties are addressed in the bill, and the important thing is that the person accumulating the data must be someone who is competent, and it really does not matter whether the person is an actuary or a college student. He pointed out the study will require not only a compilation of data, it will require an analysis of the data. He surmised the committee will be more comfortable with someone who is qualified to analyze rates, just as, if the study is on the quality of medical care, it will be better to find someone who can analyze the quality of medical care. Mr. Wadhams called attention to line 11 on page 6 which requires an analysis. He suggested the compilation phase can be done by anyone with a proper confidentiality, non-disclosure agreement, and the analysis must be competent. Noting that both the Committee on Judiciary and the Committee on Commerce and Labor are struggling with a policy question, he asserted data and analysis must be credible and reliable in order to arrive at a proper policy decision. Mr. Wadhams declared a study in Minnesota has been largely discredited because the analysis of the data extended beyond what the data represented. To prove his point, he left a sheaf of papers (Exhibit D. Original is on file in the Research Library.), including a copy of the Minnesota malpractice study, for the committee's perusal. He warned the pitfalls in the Minnesota study must be avoided in Nevada. Senator James opined no amendment will be necessary regarding a court order; the information simply will not be available unless there is a waiver by both parties. Mr. Bradley related he had just signed a confidentiality agreement which states that the information shall not be disclosed to any other person. He said that includes the insurance commissioner, and the only way the information can be released to the study is if both the physician and the client waive the confidentiality in order to benefit the state. He declared, "If there's a problem with it, I think we ought to know about it so we can go to that lawyer and say, get this waived, we have to know this information." While he voiced agreement with Mr. Bradley, Senator James said the discussion involves information that is submitted under different situations. He stated if he represents a client who enters into a confidentiality agreement and a stipulated closed settlement, he would take anyone to court who attempted to break that confidentiality. He said the fact that it might be the insurance commissioner would have no meaning to his client. Mr. Wadhams commended the senator for his position on client advocacy, yet he declared case law is equally as strong regarding the authority of the insurance commissioner, just as it is for the IRS. Senator James responded once the court issues an order he would advise his client to provide the information, but not prior to that time. He pointed out it is possible the court could deny the request. Mr. Prezant noted he had tried to deal with that problem in the amendment by making the data obtained in conjunction with the study deemed confidential as to the individual plaintiffs and the individual insurers. He acknowledged there may be some disagreement as to whether the individual insurance companies should be identified. However, he reiterated the aim is to determine the gross numbers, with no regard for the identity of the people involved. Mr. Bradley related he has had four claims against one physician, and five claims against another physician, and one is still insured with the same company. He said that goes to the fact the names will not be disclosed in the study, but there may be instances in which it will become noteworthy that a certain percentage of physicians are causing an inordinate percentage of the malpractice. He asserted that information is necessary in order to understand the total picture. Summarizing, Senator James said, "The one thing we've distilled out of this is that we need some language in here to insure that the privileged information is protected better than we have." As far as court-ordered closed matters, he asserted the Legislature cannot just invalidate all contracts of confidentiality. Regarding the association with the authority of the insurance commissioner, Senator James read NRS 679B.230, and asked if that will allow the commissioner to examine the records for purposes of the study. Mr. Bradley replied that is why the reference to the statute is stated as such in the first paragraph of section 7. Mr. Prezant asked why the wording could not state that the IFC is directed to authorize and fund the insurance commissioner to enter into a contract with an independent organization, or whatever entity, in accordance with that section of the statutes and then go on from there. Mr. Bradley replied, "Because then you have the insurance commissioner making the selection, and not Interim Finance [Committee], which was the intention behind this bill." Senator James acknowledged he understands Mr. Bradley's statement, but reiterated he is concerned with the language "in association with the authority of the insurance commissioner." He explained if an insurance company should challenge the study, and the court must interpret the language that the independent organization is in association with the authority, there may be some question in the court's mind whether there has been an express delegation. Mr. Bradley pointed out two of the three insurers in the state are present at the hearing. Senator James responded that would not matter in a court of law. Mr. Bradley replied he would not object to placing the study under the authority of the insurance commissioner as long as the selection is made by the oversight committee. Senator James suggested, then, that the language be changed to indicate it is pursuant to the authority of the insurance commissioner under NRS 679B, with the selection to be made by IFC. Alice Molasky, Commissioner, Division of Insurance, Department of Business and Industry, testified the division has some amendments designed to create efficiency within the screening panel, which she indicated she would save for another day. Ms. Molasky called attention to section 8, subsection 3, which provides authority to appropriate funds from the insurance examination fund. She pointed out the section does not refer back to NRS 679B.290, which is the commissioner's authority to charge insurance companies for the cost of the examination. She asserted without that authority the provision in A.B. 520 could deplete the examination fund, which has already been budgeted for the coming biennium, and for which the division must charge insurance companies an administrative override. Ms. Molasky proposed it be made clear that the expenses of the study will be charged back to the companies to be examined. Mr. Hillerby noted Senator Townsend had made it clear that the IFC should be able to authorize additional expenditures if it becomes necessary, rather than taking funds from the commissioner's budget. He said the language of the bill was not intended to require payment for the study out of the insurance division's budget. Senator James pointed out NRS 679B.290 says the expense of an examination of an insurer shall be borne by the person examined. Mr. Hillerby responded that refers to a typical examination, and the study may be considered a special study rather than just an examination. He added his concern regarding the wording. Senator James asked if it is likely $75,000 will not cover the cost of the study. Mr. Bradley interjected the ex-insurance commissioner testified before the Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor that the estimated the cost of a study similar to that done in Minnesota would be $90,000. Mr. Hillerby noted the RFP should give an indication of the cost, and there should be some provision for additional funding for the study so it will not be borne by the three companies who presently write malpractice insurance in Nevada. He declared, "If this is the public policy issue we think it is, there ought to be a broader base of funding." Senator James inquired if the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means had discussed who would pay for the cost. Ms. Molasky responded she was not present at the meeting and has no knowledge whether those concerns were raised, but she understands they were not. She reported the Division of Insurance prepared a proposal that was submitted to the Assembly Committee on Judiciary which indicated if the division undertook the study using independent examiners it would cost approximately $80,754. Senator James opined it would not be completely fair to insurance companies to mandate the study and then make them pay for it. He agreed it will not be the same as a typical examination, because it is an analysis of policy. He asserted the examinations charged to insurers described in NRS 679B.290 are on-going regulatory examinations. Mr. Bradley concurred it has never been the intent to have the companies pay for the study. He conjectured when the issue went to the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means they left the language intact in their rush to pass the measure along to the Senate. Because the committee is not a money committee, Senator James indicated he is inclined to leave the measure as is. Ms. Molasky reiterated her concern because, she said, there is little appetite for the money committees or the industry to increase the administrative override, yet she feels that will have to be raised and charged against all insurance companies that will be examined. Senator James offered to consult with members of the Senate Committee on Finance. Senator Porter pointed out that means that ultimately the customer will pay for the study. Senator Adler suggested it will be up to the IFC to determine the source of the funding. Senator James returned the discussion to a review of proposed amendments. He suggested retaining the word "must" on page 3, with which members of the committee indicated agreement. Further down on page 3, he recalled, there had been some question as to whether a requirement for an affidavit should be retained, and a compromise had been reached to use language to have a clear and concise statement. He stated: We take out subsection (b), and we reword subsection - the flush part - to say that the screening panel may - take out the word "summarily" - dismiss a complaint which is filed without an affidavit submitted by a medical expert supporting the allegations of the complaint. He explained that will allow the panel to dismiss the complaint, but there is no requirement to file an affidavit. He cautioned that means the complaint with no affidavit will be filed at the person's own risk. At the end of section 6, subsection 2 on page 5, line 5, Senator James indicated an addition which would read, "The claimant shall notify any statutory lien holder of the existence of a cause of action." He declared the language regarding confidentiality in section 7, subsection 2, (c)(5) on page 7 will be strengthened to indicate there will be no waiver of the work-product or attorney-client privilege, which he opined will allow separation of any mental impression to be removed from the files before they are turned over to the examiners. At the top of page 6, Senator James indicated the insertion in line 4 after the word "organization" the words "who shall, pursuant to the authority of the insurance commissioner, as set forth in [NRS] 679B, conduct a study." Mr. Bradley said: I think if we don't say that normally when there's a dismissal it's without prejudice, the insurance commissioner is going to have to decide that, and we're trying to keep decisions away from the insurance commissioner. If the panel dismisses it, I think we don't need to put it in the statute ... but the intent behind it should be without prejudice so that the insurance commissioner doesn't have to repeatedly decide motions whether to dismiss or not." Senator James responded he believes it is without prejudice unless it is beyond the statute of limitations. Senator James announced his intention to call a floor meeting to take action along the lines just discussed. He requested committee members to speak up if they have any questions or comments. With no more comment, Senator James closed the hearing on A.B. 520. He turned to the first reprint of a bill for which the Assembly proposed two amendments, Amendments No. 1340 and 1278 to S.B. 474. SENATE BILL 474: Revises provisions governing civil liability for wrongful acts and revises provisions relating to punitive damages. Asked to explain the changes, Allison Combs, Senior Research Analyst, called attention to the second page, lines 13 and 14, where she indicated the word "dangerous" was changed to "harmful," under the definition of "conscious disregard." On the same page a new subsection 2 in section 4 is being added just before section 5, she said, which will state: The limitations on liability set forth in subsection 1 do not apply to an action brought against an insurer who acts in bad faith regarding its obligations to provide insurance coverage. Ms. Combs stated on page 3 lines 43 through 48 will be deleted, which will replace subsections 1 and 2 of section 8. Senator James interjected "The employer's not liable for the action of an employee under the control or supervision of the owner or keeper unless ... there's a wrongful act which caused the death or injury which was foreseeable, and a preponderance of the evidence the owner did not excercise care for the safety of the patron," which he called a due-care standard. According to Senator James, the Assembly added the owner or keeper of a hotel will be civilly liable for death or injury of a patron or other person on the premises caused by another person who is not an employee, under certain circumstances. He explained that is language regarding a person who may come onto the premises and commit a rape or other crime. He noted the liability applies if the act was foreseeable and the owner failed to exercise reasonable precautions, another due- care standard. Senator James read the following language: The court will determine as a matter or law whether the wrongful conduct was foreseeable and whether the owner or keeper had duty to take reasonable precautions. He stated that is language similar to what the Senate originally used, which will allow a summary judgment motion. Continuing, he read: For purposes of this section, an act is not foreseeable unless the owner failed to exercise due care, or where prior incidents of similar acts occurred on the premises and the owner had knowledge of those incidents and didn't do something to prevent those. Senator James deemed the amendments to be largely technical. He asked if the committee understood the amendments and had further questions or comments. SENATOR TITUS MOVED TO CONCUR IN AMENDMENTS NO. 1340 AND 1278 TO S.B. 474. SENATOR LEE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR ADLER ABSTAINED. SENATOR WASHINGTON WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * There being no futher business to come before the meeting, Senator James adjourned the hearing at 4:00 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Judy Jacobs, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Mark A. James, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Judiciary June 29, 1995 Page