MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES AND FACILITIES Sixty-eighth Session June 9, 1995 The Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities was called to order by Chairman Raymond D. Rawson, at 2:35 p.m., on Friday, June 9, 1995, in Room 226 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman Senator Sue Lowden, Vice Chairman Senator Maurice Washington Senator Kathy M. Augustine Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr. Senator Bob Coffin Senator Bernice Mathews STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Kerry Carroll Davis, Senior Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau Linda Chapman, Committee Secretary Mary Gavin, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Mary Peterson, Ph.D., Superintendent of Public Instruction, State Board of Education Carolyne Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Valley Hospital, Washoe Medical Center, and Sun Valley General Improvement District Darrell Rasner, Chief, Bureau of Health Protection Services, Jeffrey A. Fontaine, P.E., M.P.H., Health Division, Department of Human Resources Chairman Rawson opened the meeting as a work session. SENATE BILL 29: Requires State Board of Education to establish program to promote professional development of teachers. (BDR 34-285) VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE SENATE BILL (S.B.) 29. SENATOR AUGUSTINE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS COFFIN AND NEAL WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 30: Authorizes grants of money to elementary schools for programs of early intervention for certain pupils. (BDR 34-286 VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 30. SENATOR AUGUSTINE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS COFFIN AND NEAL WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 34: Makes currently employed teachers ineligible for election or appointment to state board of education. (BDR 34-425) SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 34. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 89: Requires department of education to establish date for submission by school districts of information related to employment of licensed personnel. (BDR 34-742) SENATOR AUGUSTINE MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 89. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. * * * * * SENATE BILL 143: Requires consideration of wishes of elderly persons in provision of services to those persons. (BDR 38-1107) VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 143. SENATOR AUGUSTINE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL VOTED NO.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 88: Authorizes school districts to establish programs to teach English language to certain pupils. (BDR 34- 735) Mary Peterson, Ph.D., Superintendent of Public Instruction, State Board of Education, presented the committee with a proposed amendment (Exhibit C) to S.B. 88, and told the committee Carolyne Edwards, Clark County School District, agreed to the proposed amendment. Chairman Rawson asked Dr. Peterson if the original bill without the amendment poses a problem for the State Board of Education. Dr. Peterson answered in the affirmative. Chairman Rawson asked Dr. Peterson what the problem was with the first reprint of the bill. Dr. Peterson replied the first reprint was amended to state the districts "may" establish a program to teach the English language to pupils, and the State Board of Education "shall" establish a program. She said the State Board of Education is comfortable with the "shall," but believes "may" gives a conflicting message to school districts because federal case law requires school districts to provide programs for those students. Chairman Rawson asked Dr. Peterson if the proposed amendment imposes a mandate. Dr. Peterson replied in the affirmative, adding, "To the State Board [of Education]." Chairman Rawson surmised if the State Board of Education develops regulations, they can cause anything to happen that they choose. Dr. Peterson explained the regulations go through a public hearing process with considerable input from all parties including local school districts. She said they see the regulations providing a mechanism to guide and shape the programs at the local level to make sure that local school districts are in compliance with federal guidelines. Carolyne Edwards, Lobbyist, Clark County School District, expressed their support for the bill with the amendment proposed by the State Department of Education. She said it represents the best compromise to which they can come. Chairman Rawson explained some committee members have a problem with imposing further mandates on local school districts. Ms. Edwards told the committee the problem arose between the Clark County School District, and the State Department of Education when Dr. Peterson received an opinion from the attorney general which states if the language proposed by Dr. Peterson is not used, there will be Office of Civil Rights (OCR) complaints. Senator Augustine told Ms. Edwards the proposed language is included in the first reprint of the bill. She referred her to items 12 and 13: "the State Board of Education shall adopt regulations which are necessary to administer and carry out such a program." She said it then allows each school district to develop their own programs according to their needs. Ms. Edwards replied that is why they went along with it. Senator Augustine insisted it will now mandate each school district to create a program. Chairman Rawson reiterated it is permissive as to the local school districts. Dr. Peterson insisted it is permissive as to whether the local school districts even have to offer a program, and that is why they sought an opinion from their deputy attorney general, which indicated it would cause all sorts of problems for school districts because case law at the federal level shows school districts must provide programs for those children. She reiterated if state law says "may," it creates potential problems for the school districts. Chairman Rawson opined the local districts are smart enough to recognize that, and if they have a need to develop a program, they must set it up according to the State Department of Education's regulations. Dr. Peterson reiterated she believes to say "may" sends a conflicting message to the local school districts. Senator Coffin asked Dr. Peterson if it is the intent of the State Department of Education to establish regulations which would be stronger than those required by the federal government. Dr. Peterson answered in the negative. She asserted the regulations would be consistent with federal law. Senator Coffin asked Dr. Peterson if that is her intent. Dr. Peterson answered in the affirmative. Ms. Edwards told the committee Clark County School District, because of its size, usually has model programs in place, and lead the State Department of Education, and have very little fear or distrust of the State Department of Education. Chairman Rawson commented the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce sees this legislation as an unfunded mandate. Senator Augustine asked Ms. Edwards if this program is already in place, why this bill is necessary. Ms. Edwards replied the Clark County School District wants it in statute because it contains definition and brings respect to the Hispanic community, which is pressuring them to support legislation to indicate the Clark County School District means business. Vice Chairman Lowden told the committee Punam Mathur of the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce indicated they believe this legislation creates an unfunded mandate. She opined the bill will lose on the floor because all legislation which includes "shall" has been looked upon as an unfunded mandate. She said they are trying to save the bill and satisfy the needs of the Hispanic community by the use of permissive language, but if they insist on "shall" they risk losing on the floor. Dr. Peterson reiterated "shall" has been in the bill all along regarding the State Department of Education. Chairman Rawson suggested they should revert to the original language. Senator Neal surmised the proposed amendment allows the State Department of Education to make regulations, and technically meets the federal law and thereby exempts the school districts from being sued if they fail to carry out these particular programs. He insisted if the committee chooses to go forward with the elimination of the mandated language, it is inviting the federal government and the Office of Civil Rights to bring forth lawsuits. He said a lot of time and money would be required to defend those suits, and that is why the changes are being proposed. Vice Chairman Lowden acknowledged Senator Neal's comments, but reiterated an unfunded mandate will have difficulty passing on the floor. She suggested, if school districts are already implementing programs of this nature, it should be demonstrated to the rural school districts that this is not beyond their means to handle. She insisted this is a financial issue not an argument about whether or not Nevada wants bilingual education. Senator Neal declared: Well, I don't have...difficulty in reading this particular language as our junior senator from Las Vegas seems to have. You know, the 'shall' applies to the State Board of Education: 'They shall adopt regulations necessary to...administer this particular program.' It is on a state level. It has not been applied, as such, you know, to the schools. Now, they [are] going to formulate these regulations, and I'm sure that they can make, within those reg[ulation]s, you know, accommodations for those rural schools who might not have this problem. Senator Augustine replied: To the senior senator from North Las Vegas, if you will look at your first reprint in your book, lines 12 and 13, it says, 'The State Board of Education shall adopt regulations which are necessary to carry out and administer such program; the same language that's in this proposed amendment. It is already there in the way this was passed out of the committee! Chairman Rawson pointed out an important distinction: in the first reprint, every district does not have to set up a program, but, if they do, they must follow the state regulations. He said if they do not, that is the issue of possible lawsuits. Chairman Rawson asked Dr. Peterson if she is better off without anything if she cannot change the language to that which she considers efficient. Dr. Peterson answered in the affirmative. She opined the "may" to the schools sends a very confusing message, and opens them up to possible lawsuits. She reiterated the importance of recognizing the Hispanic community by creating, in statute, appropriate programs. Chairman Rawson suggested perhaps starting anew with fresh language, and asked Dr. Peterson if she could prepare a fiscal note for the bill. Dr. Peterson asked how soon Chairman Rawson would need it. Chairman Rawson replied, "The sooner the better." SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND S.B. 88 AS PROPOSED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. SENATOR COFFIN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR AUGUSTINE WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * BILL DRAFT REQUEST 38-846: Increases opportunity for recapture of public assistance after death of recipient. SENATOR COFFIN MOVED FOR COMMITTEE INTRODUCTION OF BILL DRAFT REQUEST (BDR) 38-846. SENATOR WASHINGTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR AUGUSTINE WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * BILL DRAFT REQUEST R-1251: Directs legislative commission to appoint committee to conduct interim study of feasibility of establishing comprehensive system for collection and management of data related to health care from public and private entities. SENATOR NEAL MOVED FOR COMMITTEE INTRODUCTION OF BILL DRAFT REQUEST R-1251. SENATOR WASHINGTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS LOWDEN AND MATHEWS VOTED NO. SENATOR AUGUSTINE WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 515: Requires board of regents of University of Nevada to create program to encourage and assist state and local law enforcement officers in earning college degrees. (BDR 34-1550) SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 515. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL VOTED NO. SENATORS AUGUSTINE AND WASHINGTON WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 257: Requires certain medical facilities to provide information and training on appropriate procedures in event of fire or other emergencies. (BDR 40-155) SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE S.B. 257. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR WASHINGTON WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 31: Authorizes formation and operation of charter schools in Nevada. (BDR 34-291) Vice Chairman Lowden suggested the bill be amended to define a pilot program for Clark and Washoe counties, and to create an interim study committee to monitor the pilot programs. Chairman Rawson asked Vice Chairman Lowden which entity has ultimate authority over the charter school program. Vice Chairman Lowden responded the State Department of Education and local districts are involved, but local districts will have ultimate control. Chairman Rawson said, "So, we have established a mechanism for the local districts to be able to approve or disprove the plan?" Vice Chairman Lowden answered in the affirmative. Senator Coffin said he would like to know how many states have programs of this nature, and how they are working, because he feels these are private schools with public funding. Senator Augustine told Chairman Rawson S.B. 31 had gotten all the way to the floor, and told Senator Coffin it was on second reading. Senator Coffin disagreed with Senator Augustine, and said the committee referred it for a specific purpose, and brought it back. Chairman Rawson clarified it was reported for the sole purpose of amending so it could be read more clearly. SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND S.B. 31 TO INCLUDE THREE PILOT SCHOOLS: ONE EACH IN CLARK, WASHOE, AND CARSON CITY COUNTIES; TO MAKE CERTAIN TECHNICAL CHANGES TO THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL; AND, TO CREATE AN INTERIM STUDY COMMITTEE FOR THE PURPOSE OF EVALUATION AND RESEARCH. SENATOR WASHINGTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATORS MATHEWS AND COFFIN VOTED NO.) * * * * * ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 22: Encourages Department of Human Resources to require person who contracts with Medicaid to provide coordinated care to use national data base to obtain certain information. (BDR R-1253) SENATOR AUGUSTINE MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 22. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. * * * * * ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 14: Encourages employers to allow leave without pay for employees to participate in school-related activities and provide procedure for school to contact parent at work in case of emergency involving child. (BDR R-547) Chairman Rawson advised the committee is in the process of drafting an amendment to this resolution. The committee took no action on the resolution. ASSEMBLY BILL 436: Authorizes board of county commissioners in certain counties to serve as board of hospital trustees. (BDR 40-1396) Senator Augustine explained there are several amendment proposals in process. Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Valley Hospital and Washoe Medical Center, testified nurses were doing certain tests at the bedside, and the laboratory division of the health department advised them that they cannot do that unless they are licensed as laboratory technologists under the current statutes. He said the amendment was worked out with the Health Division and would allow nurses to be able to do bedside testing in certain instances. He said the reason it is in this bill is because... Senator Neal interrupted Mr. Hillerby, asking, "What are the nurses doing?" Mr. Hillerby replied there are six tests, one of them being blood glucose for which they now have glucometers. He said it is not legal for them to perform those tests unless the statute is changed. He said they were advised by Brenda Erdoes, Legislative Counsel, Legislative Counsel Bureau, that this is within the constraints of the Supreme Court rulings and they could include it in the bill. He added Assemblyman Neighbors allowed them to use this bill as a vehicle. Senator Augustine advised the committee is awaiting further amendments to the bill. Chairman Rawson stated they will deal with S.B. 436 in a later meeting. ASSEMBLY BILL 367: Requires boards of health to avoid conflicts with statutory provisions governing general improvement districts when adopting regulations concerning disposal of sewage. (BDR 40-955) Darrell Rasner, Chief, Bureau of Health Protection Services, told the committee this bill was not requested by the Health Division; it came up in an interim committee on taxation. He stated it does have implications to the way they currently operate with respect to sewage disposal systems. He maintained, as proposed, it would be less stringent than current regulations. He referred to a letter (Exhibit D) to Chairman Rawson from Bernard Feldman, M.D., MPH, Chairman, State Board of Health, who opposes the passage of A.B. 367. He testified that is the position of the Bureau of Health Protection Services as well. Chairman Rawson stated this issue arose because of an issue regarding septic tanks. He said a simple measurement from the lot line to a sewer line can easily be measured on a plot plan, but if it has to be made from the house or dwelling it will require someone to physically go out and measure it. Mr. Rasner confirmed it will require an additional inspection, thereby adding additional cost, and possible delay to the homeowner. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Rasner how important the 400-foot figure is. Mr. Rasner replied they usually follow the easements. He said the 400-foot rule is if it is within those easements, so there is a little common sense involved. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Rasner what if it is written so that, for initial measurement and determination, it is exactly the way they currently do it, but if a property owner is refused, they can appeal, and if the measurements turn out to be from the home to the sewer line, they would be able to proceed. He stated it would still maintain the 400-foot figure, but an inspection would only be required in cases where there is an appeal. Mr. Rasner asked Chairman Rawson if the 400 feet he referred to would be from the lot line or the dwelling. Chairman Rawson replied, "400 feet from the lot line, and someone was refused because the lot line was only 375 feet [from the sewer], but their home was 400 feet [from the sewer], on appeal, they could still be given the permit." Mr. Rasner advised the appeal mechanism already exists within the State Board of Health in the variance process. Chairman Rawson asked if the State Board of Health would grant a variance to an owner whose lot line was less than 400 feet from the sewer. Mr. Rasner replied it would depend on the circumstances. If the area was demonstrated to be contaminated by nitrates due to septic tanks, probably not. If there were several homes in an area where there was not a pollution problem, perhaps. Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Sun Valley General Improvement District (SVGID), said they have no qualms with the State Board of Health, but said the law states it is 400 feet from the residence. He said the first reprint made chapter 318 of the Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) consistent with what the SVGID wants, but the statute says, if sewage is part of a general improvement district, the rule is 400 feet from the house, and the State Board of Health regulation states 400 feet from the property line. He said they are fine with it being 400 feet from the property line, but maintained inconsistency creates a problem for them. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Hillerby if it is his desire to go back to the first reprint. Mr. Hillerby answered in the affirmative. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Hillerby if everyone agrees with the first reprint. Mr. Hillerby replied everyone except Assemblywoman Lambert, who has constituents in the northern valleys who have long, narrow lots where the houses may be 650 feet from the property line which is 400 feet from the sewage line, and therefore they have to install 1050 feet of sewage line instead of a septic tank. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Hillerby if the committee can write an exception for that. Mr. Hillerby replied the first reprint of the bill allowed for homeowners to appeal that decision. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Hillerby if they can have an understanding that the appeal will be favorable for people who have that kind of situation? Mr. Hillerby replied he cannot make that agreement; it would be up to the State Board of Health. Jeffrey A. Fontaine, P.E., M.P.H., Health Division, Department of Human Resources, testified the waiver provision in the first reprint of the bill was between the general improvement districts and the homeowners. He said under the State Board of Health variance request, homeowners' requests for waiver of the requirement to hook on if it exceeds 400 feet are handled on a case-by-case basis. Chairman Rawson asked Mr. Fontaine if he would characterize the bureaucracy of that process as reasonable. Mr. Fontaine replied he has inquired within his division (which implements these requirements, and has done so for the past 23 years) and is not aware of any variance applications to this particular requirement. He said if the homeowner wishes to do so, the application fee is $150, and could be waived based on economic hardship. Senator Neal stated he can understand why Ms. Lambert would have a problem with the first reprint, given the description that Mr. Hillerby gave regarding the narrow lots. He said it could be that the septic tank would wind up in somebody's front yard. Mr. Fontaine told the committee: The cost to a homeowner of connecting to a community sewer, if it is existing, really is the cost to connect and bring the connection fees to the municipality as well as the cost to bring the sewer from the street to the property line. We've done some checking around town and, based upon one contractor's estimate, he told us that they can install sewer line, orange sewer line, on an individual's property for $6 per foot. Now, if you take a 1-acre lot, 200 feet roughly by 200 feet, that is an additional $1,200 if they put the house at the very end of that 1-acre lot, and the cost can be calculated as such, and, again, you know, if an individual came in and they had a 10- acre lot, and they decided to put their home at the very end, and they needed to run the sewer the entire length of that lot, and the cost was exorbitant they could come before the State Board of Health and present their case. Senator Neal asked Mr. Fontaine if the State Board of Health is still permitting people to build homes with septic tanks in northern Nevada. Mr. Fontaine answered in the affirmative. He said the State Board of Health issued more than 1,500 permits in the rural counties last year. SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 367, BY REVERTING TO THE FIRST REPRINT OF THE BILL. SENATOR COFFIN SECONDED THE MOTION. Senator Augustine asserted the Health Division testified in favor of the bill, and asked Chairman Rawson if the Health Division is different from the State Board of Health which voiced opposition to the bill through Dr. Feldman, or if Dr. Feldman just opposed the second reprint. Mr. Rasner explained the State Board of Health is the regulatory adopting body of the State Health Division. He told the committee Dr. Feldman's opposition was to the second reprint. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR MATHEWS VOTED NO.) * * * * * ASSEMBLY BILL 436: Authorizes board of county commissioners in certain counties to serve as board of hospital trustees. (BDR 40-1396) Senator Augustine told Chairman Rawson, rather than wait for an amendment to be drafted, on page 3, deleting lines 43 to 46, would be the extent of the amendment. She explained that would allow the commissioners to become ex officio members of the hospital board without removing the elected officials from office. SENATOR AUGUSTINE MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS A.B. 436 TO INCLUDE THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT BY MR. HILLERBY, AND DELETE LINES 43 THROUGH 46 ON PAGE 3. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR WASHINGTON VOTED NO.) * * * * * There being no further business before the committee, Chairman Rawson adjourned the meeting at 3:50 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Linda Chapman, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities June 9, 1995 Page