MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES AND FACILITIES Sixty-eighth Session March 8, 1995 The Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities was called to order by Chairman Raymond D. Rawson, at 2:00 p.m., on Wednesday, March 8, 1995, in Room 226 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman Senator Sue Lowden, Vice Chairman Senator Maurice Washington Senator Kathy M. Augustine Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr. Senator Bob Coffin Senator Bernice Mathews GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT: Assemblyman Joseph E. Dini, Jr. STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Kerry Carroll Davis, Senior Research Analyst Linda Chapman, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Ronald M. James, State Historic Preservation Officer, State Historic Preservation Office John W. Riggs, Senior, E. Clampus Vitus Stephen Helsley, State Liaison, National Rifle Association of America Randall L. Todd, Dr. P.H., State Epidemiologist, Health Division, State of Nevada Department of Human Resources Chairman Rawson called the meeting to order and stated there were two bills before the committee with a work session following the hearing on the bills. Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 14. ASSEMBLY BILL 14: Revises provisions governing financial administration of Comstock historic district. (BDR 33-878) Chairman Rawson asked if anyone in favor of the bill wished to testify. Ronald M. James, State Historic Preservation Officer, State Historic Preservation Office, was first to testify. He stated he thinks A.B. 14 is fairly innocuous. He said the State Historic Preservation Office currently has the authority to accept gifts, but the proceeds from the investment of those gifts are returned to the General Fund according to current default legislation. He said the passage of A.B. 14 would allow the Comstock historic district to seek and encourage donations with the idea that they would be able to tell donors that their money would continue to work for the district rather than just be spent out as principal. He said this bill was submitted by the Governor's budget office. He provided two brochures to the committee (Exhibits C and D) on the Comstock historic district. Chairman Rawson asked if this bill would allow the Comstock historic district to establish a trust account. Mr. James replied he does not think that specific term was used. He said it simply means that the account can bear interest. He advised the committee he had spoken to Bob Seale, State Treasurer, who advised the Comstock historic district would then open a separate interest bearing account. Chairman Rawson asked how Mr. James would expect this to show on their budget. Mr. James said it would show up as a separate budget account as it does now. He said there is a separate budget account for gifts and donations. He explained it is just a matter of whether the interest goes to the General Fund or to the commission. Vice Chairman Lowden asked Mr. James what amount of money he was talking about. Mr. James replied they have never had much more than $20,000ñ in the account. He said there is currently only a few hundred dollars in the account. He explained the Comstock historic district has been reluctant to seek donations because they are not able to retain the interest thereon. He said the commission also has some real estate, which they may possibly be interested in selling, if they can count on the proceeds from the interest. Chairman Rawson said he is interested in the aspect of the formation of a trust which would fund various aspects of the historic district's operations regardless of budget cycles. He asked if anyone was in opposition to the bill. There being no one, he asked if anyone else wished to testify in favor of the bill. Mr. John W. Riggs, Senior, E. Clampus Vitus, came forth to testify. He said E. Clampus Vitus is the largest historical organization in the State of Nevada. He said they favor A.B. 14. * * * * * VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MADE A MOTION TO DO PASS A.B. 14. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * Chairman Rawson opened the hearing on Assembly Concurrent Resolution (A.C.R.) 1. ASSEMBLY CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 1: Encourages Department of Education and civic and community service organizations to implement Eddie Eagle Elementary Gun Safety Education Program. (BDR R-1322) Assemblyman Joseph E. Dini, Jr., came forth to testify on behalf of A.C.R. 1. He said he has the pleasure of presenting a resolution which he believes everyone can support. He said A.C.R. 1 is intended to encourage the Nevada Department of Education and appropriate civic groups to utilize the National Rifle Association's (NRA) Eddie Eagle gun safety program. He said since 1988, the Eddie Eagle program has reached over 6.6 million school children from pre-kindergarten through sixth grade by way of 150 law enforcement agencies in 1,500 schools. He referred to a packet supplied to the committee (Exhibit E. Original on file in the Research Library.) by Mr. Stephen Helsley, State Liaison, NRA. He said the program's straightforward messages "stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult" is "value free" meaning there is no political agenda. He said the program is neither pro- or anti-gun. He stated the program is being used in all 50 states, Canada and Puerto Rico. He said last year alone 1.8 million students participated in the Eddie Eagle gun safety program. He added one of the main positive aspects of the program is that the first set of materials requested by schools or law enforcement agencies is provided free by the NRA. He said additional materials are provided by the NRA at their cost. He cited as an example of how the program is growing, the Wayne County Sheriff's Office in Michigan recently ordered 96,000 Eddie Eagle gun safety program kits. He said the program is endorsed by the Police Athletic League, has been commended by the American Legion, and won the National Safety Council's highest honor for community service in 1994. He said Nevada has been very fortunate in that very few children have been accidentally injured or killed by firearms in the state. He said, however, as our population becomes more urban, fewer children will receive firearms training from their parents. He said he believes that the Eddie Eagle program should become an integral part of our education program so we can insure maximum firearm safety for young children. He introduced Mr. Stephen Helsley, State Liaison, National Rifle Association (NRA), saying he too wished to address the committee. Mr. Helsley stated he was prepared to field any questions the committee may have. Vice Chairman Lowden said she noticed the committee was provided with level two of the program and asked to what level the program goes. Mr. Helsley said the material provided to the committee is just a sample, and does not include all of the material involved in the program. He said the program is designed for pre- kindergarten through sixth grade children. He explained there are a series of coloring books, video tapes, and instructional guides for teachers. Chairman Rawson asked if Mr. Helsley would provide a complete copy of the materials for committee review. Mr. Helsley answered in the affirmative. Chairman Rawson pointed out that an Assembly Concurrent Resolution does not impose a mandate, and asked Mr. Helsley if other states which only "encourage" participation in the program have a high rate of compliance. Mr. Helsley said those states do have a high compliance rate. He commented the rate of growth has been tremendous particularly in the last year. He said many other states are currently going through the same process as Nevada to encourage implementation of the program. Chairman Rawson asked if there are any statistics indicating the number of lives that have been saved as a result of this program. Mr. Helsley said he does not have specific numbers, but deaths from those types of accidents are down nationally. He said the NRA thinks this program is at least a contributor to that downward trend. Chairman Rawson complimented Mr. Helsley on his part in implementing the program. He asked if anyone wished to testify in opposition to the resolution. There being none, Chairman Rawson closed the hearing on A.C.R. 1. * * * * * SENATOR MATHEWS MADE A MOTION TO DO PASS A.C.R. 1. SENATOR WASHINGTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * Chairman Rawson asked the committee to refer to the work session information (Exhibit F) prepared by Kerry Carroll Davis, Senior Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau. Referring to Exhibit F he described the origin of Senate Bill (S.B.) 35, and the proposed amendments. SENATE BILL 35: Revises requirements concerning signing of certificates of immunization required of children attending schools and child care facilities. (BDR 34-855) Chairman Rawson stated he received many comments after the hearing on S.B. 35, regarding the fact that immunization saves lives and is an important public health program. He said he spoke with some public health officials who said they have not seen a significant decline in immunizations as a result of personal exemption laws. He said there are a number of states that allow these exemptions and their level of immunization and the level of protection for society remains high, but allows parents who have particular concerns to express them. He asserted it seems to be desirable to allow people an exemption on the basis of personal or religious preferences. He said he asked Ms. Davis to provide some background on this topic so the committee could discuss it. He asked if the committee has any strong feelings about this bill. Senator Augustine referred to a fax (Exhibit G) received from the California Department of Health Services, Immunization Branch, explaining she had the fax typed out since it came in handwritten. She expressed her support of the bill as written. She said she did not see a need for the amendments. She mentioned the State of Idaho is having a major problem related to the issue of immunization, citing only 61 percent of their population is immunized. She pointed out that Ms. Davis did some research for her which indicates in order for Nevada to receive federal immunization grants, the state is required to mandate immunization. Chairman Rawson clarified that those mandates still allow for religious exemptions. Senator Augustine said she is aware of that and said Nevada is allowed to give medical or religious exemptions. She stated she thinks the health department's concern opened the statute, and the committee had a flood of other concerns. She did not know why those other concerns were not brought out in advance. Chairman Rawson referred to a letter from Otto Ravenholt (Exhibit H) showing that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) does not have an official policy recommendation against the granting of exemptions. He stressed there are 18 states that currently have the "personal belief" or "philosophical" exemptions in addition to exemptions for medical reasons or religious beliefs. He said a heavy concentration of those states are located in the western United States. Chairman Rawson indicated he was looking for a particular statement within that letter. Senator Augustine said there is a statement on the second page that talks about those that do not have immunizations must be expelled from school at the time of outbreak... Chairman Rawson stated there are occasions when, for example, there is a measles outbreak and there are students who are not immunized and would have to be quarantined or removed from the school while the outbreak is in progress. He said he does not think that would change at all. Chairman Rawson referred to a handwritten note on the letter to him from Otto Ravenholt (Exhibit H) saying "I think we can follow this course." Chairman Rawson stated he has worked with Mr. Ravenholt for about 20 years, and thinks Mr. Ravenholt feels that we are not opening the flood gates to any potential disaster. Chairman Rawson said his recommendation is that, if the committee is careful in the wording of this amendment, it is a reasonable course. He said he thinks it will not be used very much. He stated the exemption is widely used in Clark County, and is less frequently allowed in Washoe County. Vice Chairman Lowden stated she is in favor of the amendment as a choice issue having two children who suffered tremendously as a result of immunization shots. She indicated she would be voting for the bill as amended. Senator Augustine said if the committee is looking to do an amendment for parental objection, they should look at the Arizona law as it applies to the nonattendance requirement during an outbreak as well. She referred to item C, under 15- 873, "Pupils who lack documentary proof of immunization shall not attend school during outbreak periods of communicable immunization preventable diseases." Chairman Rawson asked if the committee members had any further discussion on the matter. Senator Coffin said he wanted to join in on the general philosophical discussion to make sure that the committee understands that it makes him very nervous to create any further exemptions of any kind at this particular time because of the large number of immigrants who are coming into our state. He said he is very familiar with the diseases of Latin America, having spent a good deal of time there and traveled frequently there. He said many of those diseases, such as cholera, are spreading toward the United States. He said he is aware that California has had this exemption for 16 or 17 years, which gives him some degree of comfort, but said he does not know how long Arizona's law has been in effect. He added, as a parent of a 17-year old son and a 15-month old daughter, he does not like it when they become ill or experience discomfort following an inoculation, but he thinks that is just the way it is with some people who receive vaccinations. He said he feels a great deal of comfort knowing his children are protected from these terrible, preventable diseases. He said he is inclined to not support any amendments. He said unless the state health department could tell him that they have changed their position on this, he will not support any amendments. Chairman Rawson asked if there was anyone in the meeting room from the state health department. Randall L. Todd, Dr. P.H., State Epidemiologist, Health Division, State of Nevada Department of Human Resources, came forth to testify. He said the State Health Division is still opposed to the "philosophical" exemption for much the same reasons expressed by Senators Coffin and Augustine. He said one of the major concerns that State Health Department has if this committee decides to allow an exemption is that their research shows many people apply for entrance to school who have not received their immunizations, rather than send them back to get their immunizations, the school personnel will simply hand them a philosophical exemption form and they can then have immediate admission into the school. He said what has also been observed by their colleagues in other states is that when outbreaks do occur in the schools and these exempted students are excluded during the course of the outbreak, many times the "philosophical" exemptions disappear, and people make a mad dash to the clinics to be immunized. He emphasized for those reasons, the State Health Department would be remiss if it did not at least urge the committee to adopt language (if it does consider a philosophical exemption amendment) that would make it no more convenient to obtain the exemption than it is to obtain the immunizations. He added if people who are obtaining a philosophical exemption be appropriately apprised of the risks and benefits involved. Chairman Rawson stated he shares that concern. He suggested the amendment state, "upon the completion of a statement of objection filed by the parent or legal guardian, on a form to be available at the county health department," be included. He further suggested the form not be at every school where students are registered. He said he has no objection to stronger language in the amendment. He said he concurs with Mr. Todd, in that if it is easier for parents to not have their children immunized than to have them immunized, the parents may simply choose the easy route. Chairman Rawson said there is a sense that the exemption exists now, but has been made so difficult that people have been denied access to it. Mr. Todd said, in sitting through the hearing on the bill, it seems to him that many of the problems that were identified reflect difficulties in obtaining the existing religious and/or medical exemptions, not so much the problem that Nevada does not have a philosophical exemption. He said he thinks those difficulties arise from a lack of uniformity in the implementation of the existing exemptions. He said the committee heard testimony that Clark County implements the exemptions one way and Washoe County implements them a different way. He said the feeling of the State Health Department is that this could best be remedied if the Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities was to direct the State Board of Health to make the exemption process uniform through regulation. Chairman Rawson said if he had confidence that the State Board of Health would address the concerns of people, the committee would not have to deal with this. He said, in other words, he thinks a person should not have to prove their religious beliefs. He said if they ask for a religious exemption that should be sufficient. He reiterated, the simple fact that a person indicates immunization is against their religious beliefs should be ample. Mr. Todd concurred, but remarked there is a need for uniformity. He suggested if the committee attempts to correct the problem simply by adding an additional exemption which is nonuniformly implemented, the problem will not be solved. Chairman Rawson agreed, and asked if the committee had any further questions. Senator Washington said he understands the bill as it is written, but is concerned about the student who is not immunized being expelled from school during an outbreak. Chairman Rawson interjected they are "not really expelled, but they must be quarantined essentially." He said he suspects there will be some constitutional problems with that issue along the way, but is less worried about the discriminatory affects of expulsion than how it would be interpreted by people. He added there are several states which have done it apparently successfully. Mr. Todd said he would like to clarify for Senator Washington the circumstance where an outbreak is occurring within a school then the students who are not protected through immunization would be excluded only for the duration of the outbreak. He said Senator Washington raises a fundamental issue which he is not sure the committee has yet addressed, that being the right of individuals to forego vaccine protection has been considered, yet the committee needs to juxtapose the situation to the right of other individuals in our society who perhaps have to, through no choice of their own, remain susceptible to these diseases, either because they are too young to be immunized or have medical conditions which prevent them from ever being immunized. He said these individuals also have a right to be protected through the reduction of disease incidence which society achieves through widespread immunization. He said he thinks both sides of this issue need to be discussed. Senator Mathews said Mr. Todd expressed it beautifully for her. She reiterated there are individuals who cannot be protected, and thinks we, as a society, have an obligation to them. She stated she is opposed to adding any exemptions beyond those for religious beliefs or medical necessity. Senator Augustine said she understands from the California Department of Health that California had an Asian strain of pertussis which was very virulent and caused a major problem in that state. She said she does not support the exemptions in the amendment, but if the committee supports the amendment, she requests that the committee also include the school exclusion with it. Senator Augustine asked if Mr. Todd could comment on the pertussis outbreak in California. Mr. Todd said he could not comment on the California incident Senator Augustine referred to, but said as the number of susceptible individuals in our population increases, the potential for a number of small outbreaks in these pockets of susceptible individuals increases as well. Chairman Rawson asked what the pleasure of the committee was. * * * * * VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MADE A MOTION TO AMEND WITH THE DISCUSSED AMENDMENT (EXHIBIT F, ATTACHMENT A, AND TO INCLUDE IN THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT THE ARIZONA STATUTE) AND DO PASS S.B. 35. SENATOR WASHINGTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION FAILED. (SENATORS COFFIN, AUGUSTINE AND MATHEWS VOTED NO. SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATOR AUGUSTINE MADE A MOTION TO DO PASS S.B. 35. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 85: Revises provisions governing suspension or expulsion of pupil who possesses dangerous weapon or firearm. (BDR 34-656) Chairman Rawson explained that this bill was requested by the Lyon County School District. He said the issue that the committee was waiting on was whether or not the wording of the bill should be "dangerous" or "deadly" weapon. Chairman Rawson asked Ms. Davis if she would like to address the committee on this issue. Ms. Davis explained that she talked to the Senate Bill Drafting Advisor regarding the Nevada Attorneys for Criminal Justice suggestion to replace the word "dangerous" with the word "deadly." She said the committee had asked whether that would impact the bill in any way. She reported the Senate Bill Drafting Advisor informed her that it would have no impact given the definition in the bill as to what "dangerous weapon" is currently. She said if the committee's intent is to allow the schools to classify an ordinary object as a dangerous weapon if it is used in that manner or threatened to be used in that manner, then the Senate Bill Drafting Advisor advised that we should leave "dangerous" in the bill. Chairman Rawson said he thought it was a group of attorneys who are used to dealing with the words "deadly weapon," but said there is a difference between using "deadly" and "dangerous." He stressed "deadly" would be a more restrictive definition than "dangerous." He said he has a sense from the committee that they wanted to able to classify a book, if it was used as dangerous weapon, as a "dangerous" weapon. He said, in other words, the committee does not want to specify "firearms" exclusively, if a student uses something else in a deadly or dangerous fashion. He said that it is his interpretation that the committee wants to be able to recognize the use of ordinary objects as dangerous weapons if used in that manner. He asked Ms. Davis if there are any other issues regarding the bill. Ms. Davis stated the other issue is something that is a holdover from the first hearing, that being a suggestion from the Deputy Superintendent of the Elko County School District which suggested that the committee remove the phrase "extraordinary and exceptional factors" on line 21, page 1, of the bill. Chairman Rawson said he senses there is no consensus in the committee with regard to that issue. Chairman Rawson asked if there was any discussion. There being none, he asked what the pleasure of the committee was. * * * * * VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN MADE A MOTION TO DO PASS S.B. 85. SENATOR AUGUSTINE SECONDED THE MOTION. SENATOR AUGUSTINE MOVED TO AMEND VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN'S MOTION TO "DO PASS S.B. 85" TO: " AMEND AND DO PASS S.B. 85" (THE AMENDMENT BEING TO STRIKE THE WORDS "UPON THE SHOWING OF EXTRAORDINARY AND EXCEPTIONAL FACTORS") VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN ACCEPTED THE AMENDMENT TO HER MOTION. Chairman Rawson clarified that would allow the superintendent of schools of any school district to allow an exception in a particular case. He explained it would not have to be an "extraordinary" or "exceptional" circumstance. He asked if there was further discussion. Senator Coffin said he would support the bill as amended, but suggested the committee go a little bit further before taking it to the floor. He said this bill addresses crime and punishment, and said the lawyers on the Senate Committee on Judiciary might want to check and make sure we do not... Chairman Rawson interjected saying the Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities has clear jurisdiction in this instance since there are no criminal penalties, or court proceedings. He said this simply addresses the suitability of a student to attend school. He explained it does not involve the criminal justice system, per se. Senator Coffin said the attorneys on his committee would want to play with the wording. Chairman Rawson said he would discuss it with the chairman of the Senate Committee on Judiciary. THE MOTION TO AMEND AND DO PASS CARRIED. (SENATOR NEAL WAS ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) * * * * * SENATE BILL 232: Authorizes certification of personnel of public libraries by state librarian. (BDR 33-1428) Chairman Rawson asked Senator Mathews to address the committee regarding her research on the bill. Senator Mathews said with the help of Ms. Davis she had an amendment prepared (Exhibit F, Attachment E). * * * * * SENATOR MATHEWS MADE A MOTION TO AMEND AND DO PASS S.B. 232. VICE CHAIRMAN LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. Vice Chairman Lowden asked for an explanation of what the central repository for Nevada records of criminal history is. Chairman Rawson explained it is the highway patrol's data system. Ms. Davis pointed out there was one more amendment at the bottom of the page of Attachment E, Exhibit F, regarding the fees charged for issuance or renewal of a certificate. Senator Augustine explained that would have allowed the money to remain in the library system rather than returning it to the General Fund. Chairman Rawson mentioned if this amendment is added, the bill would then have to go to the Senate Committee on Finance. Vice Chairman Lowden said she had a dialog with the library people as she was leaving the hearing on S.B. 232, since she had suggested this amendment. She said they would rather have the bill passed as it is rather than amending it and having it held up in finance. She said if the library system sees that they generate enough money that it really could be helpful to them, they would come back in 2 years, or whenever and ask that the library be allowed to retain those fees. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. * * * * * Chairman Rawson asked Senator Mathews to handle the bill on the floor. Senator Mathews agreed to do it. Ms. Davis asked for clarification on the amendment to S.B. 232. She asked whether the motion includes both amendments, or just the first. Chairman Rawson replied it is only the first amendment found on Exhibit F, Attachment E. There being no further business before the committee, Chairman Rawson adjourned the meeting at 2:50 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Linda Chapman, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Human Resources and Facilities March 8, 1995 Page