MINUTES OF THE JOINT SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT OF ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS AND SENATE COMMITTEE ON FINANCE Sixty-eighth Session April 20, 1995 The joint subcommittee meeting on General Government of the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means and the Senate Committee on Finance was called to order at 8:00 a.m., on Thursday, April 20, 1995, Chairman Chris Giunchigliani presiding in Room 352 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Mrs. Jan Evans, Vice Chairman Ms. Sandra Tiffany, Vice Chairman Mrs. Maureen E. Brower Ms. Chris Giunchigliani Mr. Bob Price SENATE COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen Senator William R. O'Donnell Senator Bernice Mathews Senator Bob Coffin COMMITTEE MEMBERS EXCUSED: Mr. Dennis Allard GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT: None STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Mark Stevens, Fiscal Analyst Robert Guernsey, Deputy Fiscal Analyst Brian M. Burke, Program Analyst Gary Ghiggeri, Deputy Fiscal Analyst OTHERS PRESENT: Tracy Raxter, Department of Administration Program Analyst Brian Burke advised the committee there were a number of recurring themes in the technical adjustments such as state-owned building rent and reserve increases. He indicated he would cover the adjustments once and refer to them several times again throughout the other budget accounts. In reference to technical adjustments for the Department of Information Services (DIS) Director's Office, Mr. Burke stated the state-owned building rent was increased to match the state- owned building rent in the Director's Office to the Governor's recommended staffing levels. The Director's Office is increasing from seven to fourteen staff and will therefore receive a larger share of the state-owned building rent. The reserve is being reduced to the base level. DIS can pre- bill agencies for cash flow. NRS 242,221 allows the Controller to temporarily advance up to 25 percent of anticipated revenue to the agency. The SPIRIT document recommended centralization of PC software site licensing agreements and hardware maintenance contracts. Mr. Burke indicated the committee may wish to consider through a letter of intent directing the department to pursue centralization and request quarterly reports throughout the biennium. In reference to the technical adjustments for Research and Planning, Mr. Burke noted adjustments were made to reflect a redistribution of state-owned building rent charges. The personnel expenses were reduced to reflect a 10/1/95 start date rather than 7/1/95 for the two new planning analysts. All clerical positions are consolidated into the Director's Office. If the committee chooses to allow the transfer, adjustments need to be made to all DIS budget accounts that pay the assessment. Technical adjustments to the Systems and Programming Division budget include cleaning up the misclassification between the base and M-300 module in the Merit Salary line item and modification of the State Owned Building Rent. The start date for the new positions requested is changed from 7/1/95 to 10/1/95. The Computer Programmer Analyst to support the Aging Services Division is eliminated pursuant to agency testimony. The request for an increase in cash reserve in module E-126 is reduced to the adjusted base amount. Module E-127 EDP System Programming charge is eliminated in FY 1996 to reflect a similar decrease in Facilities Management Division (FMD) costs. The System Programming Division (SPD) pays a share of FMD costs. The Governor's budget consolidates the SPD and the Planning Division. The Planning transfer expenditure in module E-901 is eliminated - it is not needed if the two divisions are consolidated. All clerical positions are consolidated into the Director's Office. A Director's assessment in module E-905 is added to reflect the increased charge to the Systems and Programming Division determined by FTE counts within the Department. The Governor's budget inadvertently omitted the assessment. Category 26 in the E-910 module was reduced. The money was intended for microcomputer specialists; the costs will be coming directly from the agency's budgets thus eliminating the need for a SPD transfer. In reference to the Master Services Agreement, Mr. Burke noted the committee may wish to consider requesting a letter of intent regarding how the category is used. Senator Jacobsen asked whether there was adequate space to house staff during the process of moving or additional rental space had been considered. Ms. Giunchigliani replied the office had been allocated another 7,800 square feet during IFC which should accommodate the moves. Senator Jacobsen suggested the possible utilization of the buildings at Stewart. Ms. Giunchigliani concurred the facility should be considered as a backup. To clarify the agency's 7,800 square foot approval, Mr. Burke noted the Governor's budget reflects $83,000 per year. An adjustment to over $100,000 a year had to be made in order to accurately reflect what was approved. Referring to the Facility Management Division technical adjustments, Mr. Burke reported non-holiday overtime pay had been reduced as no vacancy savings were included in the budget account. State-owned Building Rent was adjusted based upon a redistribution of costs within the department. Modules E-906, E-907 and E-908 were modified to remove charges that were unnecessary. A Director's assessment is added in module E-908 to reflect the increased charge to the Facility Management Division determined by FTE counts within the Department. The Microcomputer Specialist transfer request in module E-910 is reduced from five positions to four pursuant to agency testimony. In reference to the Telecommunications Division technical adjustments, Mr. Burke indicated base and M-300 modules were adjusted to accurately reflect proposed changes in the Merit Salary line item. Reserve was reduced to reflect the base level. The agency has the authority through NRS 242 to go to the Controller for a cash advance should they need additional authority. State owned building rent adjustments were made and the Director's assessment was modified to reflect the clerical transfer. The Telephone WATS and Tolls revenue was adjusted to match the Telephone WATS and Tolls expenditures. Mr. Burke reported the technical adjustments made to the Communications Division budget account 243-4555. The reserve, state-owned building rent and director's assessment were modified and salaries were reduced to reflect the October 1 start date. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE STAFF RECOMMENDED TECHNICAL ADJUSTMENTS ONLY. Senator O'Donnell believed there were assumptions made regarding movements of staff. If the budget was to be closed according to staff recommendations the committee would not be able to address the "what ifs"; the budget would have to be reopened. Chairman Giunchigliani interpreted Ms. Tiffany's motion to mean the committee had to make some adjustments depending on the policy they were to be dealing with that day. MS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION FAILED. Directing the committee's attention to the Director's Office budget, Chairman Giunchigliani asked whether they wished to allow the transfer of the clerical positions from other DIS divisions to the Director's Office. She noted there was no net cost increase to the Director's budget by performing the transfer. Senator O'Donnell asked how many open positions presently existed. Ms. Karen Kavanau, Director of Information Services, replied there were none in the clerical area at this point in time. Ms. Tiffany agreed with the clerical consolidation, however, did not support the Information Systems Specialist position. She felt if a contract administrator were to be added in the future she preferred someone experienced in the field who understood the legal and contracting aspects of the job, not someone transferred from programming. Mrs. Evans asked how the division would be affected should the committee not approve the contract administrator. Ms. Kavanau said the position's responsibilities primarily focus on purchase requisitions; thousands are received yearly (approximately 150 per month). The position serves all state agencies. Disapproval of the transfer would have a definite impact and slow the division down. The work will fall upon the two other contract administrators who assemble RFP's, contracts and other official documents for other agencies. Mrs. Evans concluded the problem was a workload issue. Chairman Giunchigliani maintained the committee's concern was due to the measurement indicators not showing growth. Ms. Tiffany suggested the contract administrator services be billed directly to each agency being impacted. Ms. Kavanau replied the administration of such a program would be difficult due to the volume. She indicated the division made the contract administrator an overhead position because overhead (philosophically) addresses all agencies and is billed through the overhead rates rather than directly to any particular agency. Ms. Tiffany asked whether there were guidelines the division could give the budget office, as they also review all purchase requests, that could help handle the workload. Ms. Kavanau replied the job was far too technical for the Budget Office. Ms. Kavanau stated the division may want to review their volume predictions as they have never before been tracked. A flat 1,500 a month was reported for a lack of any other information. She said she could understand the committee's concern, that the figure looked low compared to what the division was saying it had. Chairman Giunchigliani stated the division would have to perform the review in order to make a case; she was not convinced the job needed to be an overall management type position. Chairman Giunchigliani recommended the division examine another type of classification. Ms. Kavanau replied the position was responsible for making sure all technology purchase requisitions meet all standards of the contractual obligations the state has entered into. Chairman Giunchigliani asked why Purchasing did not assume these responsibilities. Ms. Kavanau replied Purchasing looked at purchasing rules and did not have the training or technical background. Chairman Giunchigliani asked Mr. Jim Manning of the Budget Office whether they had the training or qualifications. Mr. Manning replied their staff did not have the expertise. Chairman Giunchigliani singled out Policy Decision 1 regarding the transfer of clerical positions and suggested holding Policy Decision 2 so the division could return with additional measurement indicators as well as backup. MS. TIFFANY MOVED THE COMMITTEE ACCEPT THE TRANSFER OF THE CLERICAL POSITIONS FROM OTHER DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES DIVISIONS TO THE DIRECTOR'S OFFICE. MS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani asked the committee to take action on module E-905. MS. TIFFANY MOVED THE COMMITTEE REQUEST NEW PERFORMANCE INDICATORS RELATED TO WORKLOAD AND A RE- EXAMINATION OF THE CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION CLASSIFICATION BE SUBMITTED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES. A LETTER OF INTENT FROM THE AGENCY DIRECTING THE AGENCY TO PURSUE THE CENTRALIZATION OF PC SOFTWARE SITE LICENSING AGREEMENT AND HARDWARE MAINTENANCE CONTRACTS WAS REQUESTED. Senator Jacobsen asked if the division had future plans or whether they were waiting for the committee to make their conclusions before they moved ahead. Ms. Kavanau replied the division had plans in place for the consolidation that involved personnel. Senator Jacobsen asked whether the division's personnel had indicated displeasure regarding the changes. Ms. Kavanau stated any move is difficult for an employee, particularly if they are not informed exactly when the change will take place. Senator O'Donnell discussed the possibility of having the state repair its own computer hardware. He suggested the state negate requiring one year warranties and perform their own work which would decrease repair turnaround time. Ms. Kavanau said part of the statewide maintenance contract will require on site maintenance. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The Senators indicated they wished to defer voting at the present time. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES DIRECTOR'S OFFICE BUDGET WITH THE ISSUE OF THE REVISITING ONLY OF THE ONE POSITION. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani drew the committee's attention to the Research and Planning Division Policy Decisions. She asked whether the committee wished to add two new Planning Analyst positions to this budget account and whether they wanted to approve the merger of the Research and Planning Division with the Systems and Programming Division. Mr. Burke noted there were two vacancies for a one year period. Extensive overtime was used ($9,800) to fill in for the services the two positions provided. The division also used the Master Services Agreement Contract to fill in for the vacancies. Ms. Tiffany supported the need for adding two new planning analysts through the state employment system and not using the Master Service Contract. Ms. Kavanau stated her office was in complete agreement. She explained the loan of one position to the Executive Branch. Ms. Kavanau said the Governor's office requested a one-year loan of a planning analyst to support his strategic planning process. She was assured by the Department of Administration and Department of Personnel this was not uncommon and there were laws in place to uphold the loan process. Senator O'Donnell asked for the name of the person. Ms. Kavanau replied Alice Brown. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE THE TWO PLANNING POSITIONS PLACING THEM WITHIN THE BUDGET, NOT USING THE MASTER SERVICES AGREEMENT CONTRACT PROCESS. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. SENATOR O'DONNELL WAS OPPOSED. Chairman Giunchigliani asked the committee to consider approval of the merger of the Research and Planning Division with the Systems and Programming Division. She noted the key issue was the ability to continue the tracking of the billable budget area and felt there would be a higher comfort level if separate budgeting accounts were maintained. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE THE MERGER OF THE RESEARCH AND PLANNING DIVISION WITH SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING DIVISION PROVIDING SEPARATE BUDGET ACCOUNTS BE MAINTAINED IN ORDER TO TRACK THE BILLABLES. MS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY MOTION. SECONDED BY SENATOR JACOBSEN. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY Senator O'Donnell felt merging two entities and maintaining separate accounting would prove to be very difficult. Ms. Kavanau reported merging the two budget accounts would not negate the division's ability to track costs. She felt the committee would receive no added insight by keeping the budget accounts separate than they would by the information they already collected; billable is billable and overhead is not. She added the division kept meticulous records. Mr. Ghiggeri stated keeping the two budget accounts separate would facilitate fiscal's outside review of the accounts in order to review ongoing activity without having to go through the division to see what costs are charged to what function. If all expenses were merged into one account, fiscal would not have the ability to look at the Controller's accounting reports to determine what cost activities are occurring in any given account. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE RESEARCH AND PLANNING DIVISION BUDGET ACCORDING TO STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS WHICH INCLUDE TECHNICAL ADJUSTMENTS AND POLICY DECISIONS. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani, referring to the Systems and Programming Division technical adjustments, indicated the committee had decided to delete E-901 for $180,708 because of what they did in the previous budget. MS. TIFFANY MOVED THE COMMITTEE SEND A LETTER OF INTENT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES REGARDING THEIR MASTER SERVICE AGREEMENT THAT ALLOWS THEM TO USE IT FOR BILLABLE HOURS ONLY AND CANNOT USE IT FOR OVERHEAD OR ADDING STAFF FOR OVERHEAD. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING DIVISION BUDGET ACCORDING TO STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ELIMINATING THE $180,708 TRANSFER TO PLANNING DIVISION AND REQUESTING A LETTER OF INTENT REGARDING THE MASTER SERVICE AGREEMENT. MR. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. In reference to policy decisions pertaining to the Systems and Programming Division budget, Ms. Giunchigliani called for discussion regarding the new Programmer Analyst positions. Senator O'Donnell noted a position in Water Resources was being filled with federal dollars (U.S. Geological Survey). He felt the position, therefore, would not need to be funded. He posed the question as to whether the Aging Services and Water Resources positions should be deleted. Mr. Burke explained there were four new programmers requested in the Governor's Recommended budget. The positions were first requested by the agency and through the DIS review, were pulled into the DIS budget. The Aging position was eliminated during testimony reducing the request to three positions. The Water Resources Agency felt they did not need the programmer's support. The Taxation programmer appears to be needed and has adequate funding to support the position. The Education position is in the DIS budget, however, is not funded within the department. He pointed out, according to Jeannie Botts, the budgets have closed in subcommittee with funding for network hardware and software but there is no funding to support DIS's efforts to help Education implement their plan. The account normally paying for the DIS support would be funded through assessments. The assessments are almost maxed out and Mr. Burke felt if the committee wanted to fund DIS costs to support education it would probably be 100 percent General Fund. Ms. Tiffany supported the programmer position in Taxation, however, did not see a network support for Education as a 40- hour a week job for the entire year. She asked whether DIS had an overhead person who could be tapped for network support should the committee allocate $10,000 a year for the service. Ms. Kavanau replied she did not. She informed the committee the Governor had proposed an $11 million BDR to set up a statewide network for student record tracking. The education position would play a major role in the plan. Ms. Tiffany discussed the SMART Plan and reported Mary Peterson was willing to come back with an RFP as the Department of Education did not want DIS support or involvement. Ms. Tiffany felt Education did not have their basics handled and would not feel comfortable awarding the department with $11 million. The RFP requested by Ms. Tiffany would cover the cost of a consultant to prepare an implementation plan. Ms. Tiffany stated she did not support the SMART Program in its present lack of configuration. Ms. Kavanau agreed with Ms. Tiffany regarding the holes in Education's plan. She felt DIS needed to be part of the planning team. She reported having problems with agencies going separate directions. Chairman Giunchigliani indicated the committee had awarded Education with a new network and hardware. She asked if DIS was given $10,000 per year whether they could supply staff to help Education with their new network. Ms. Kavanau replied they could. Ms. Evans stated the same situation of agencies designing their own computer plans occurred in the 1989 legislative session. The non-coordination led to the expertise placed in the hands of DIS with agencies working in collaboration with the division. She felt Education's decision was a breach of the Legislature's decision to direct all computer decisions to DIS. Ms. Tiffany felt Ms. Kavanau should assign an employee to work together with the RFP staff in order to examine the technical and network implications, and data base. The division did not have to be the lead agency. Ms. Kavanau agreed wholeheartedly. It was her opinion the RFP should be written by DIS but the Department of Education would be in charge of defining the user needs. She said there would be no problem with preparing an RFP and getting a consultant's help since it supplements DIS's expertise. She indicated the division does not have the ability to give Education free support; out of overhead. The work to support Education's network would be billable. Chairman Giunchigliani indicated the committee had $20,000 over the biennium to pay for the billable hours. Senator O'Donnell firmly believed the $11 million project should be coordinated with DIS. He asked why the $11 million project was put into the Governor's budget without going through DIS. He did not think assigning one person to satisfy the entire SMART support was going to work. Chairman Giunchigliani suggested the committee put aside $4 million for the Education project and apply the remainder to the following biennium. She felt the total amount of money should not be held in abeyance during the planning stage. Ms. Kavanau stated there needed to be a more definitive plan. Chairman Giunchigliani noted part of the cause was due to the accountability bills passed during the 1989 and 1991 sessions. MS. EVANS MOVED TO APPROVE THE TAXATION PROGRAMMER ANALYST POSITION, DELETE AGING, EDUCATION, WATER RESOURCES DEPARTMENT POSITIONS AND APPLY AS AN OPTION $20,000 OVER THE BIENNIUM FOR BILLABLE COSTS TO THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION'S NETWORK. MS. TIFFANY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SECONDED BY SENATOR JACOBSEN. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani asked whether the committee wished to approve 14 new positions in FY 1996 and an additional new position in FY 1997 to support the Welfare Division's NOMADS project. Ms. Tiffany approved of the new positions. She recommended an activity report be submitted to IFC on a quarterly basis. The report would include whether the positions have been filled, what has been accomplished and a continual assessment on the need for the additional positions. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE ALL NEW POSITIONS CONTINGENT UPON SUBMISSION OF A QUARTERLY ACTIVITY REPORT TO THE INTERIM FINANCE COMMITTEE. MS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. Senator O'Donnell asked Ms. Kavanau for an evaluation of the NOMADS project as to whether it needed readdressing or downsizing. Ms. Kavanau indicated they could not cut any more. She reported DIS was approaching senior leadership that afternoon since the original estimates on the mainframe utilization were low. The state's mainframe serves as the production machine (the applications that are in production and run regularly) and for development. Other states separate mainframes so any development of unexpected activities like NOMADS and the impact on the resource does not affect production by the other agencies. Ms. Kavanau testified the division was now facing that problem. Ms. Pam Case, Ms. Kavanau's deputy, has negotiated with ISSC (Integrated System Solutions Corporation) to cover the division's entire cost to upgrade the computer and the system software for an interim time until the division can get their upgrade approved. ISSC offered DIS a small upgrade which is to be returned on a specific date. Ms. Case explained the upgrade will be adding approximately 21 MIPS and processing power to the CPU. It does not add disk or any other resources on the machine. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE 14 NEW POSITIONS IN FY 1996 AND AN ADDITIONAL 4 NEW POSITIONS IN FY 1997 TO SUPPORT THE WELFARE DIVISION'S NOMADS PROJECT AND ALLOW THE TRANSFER OF TWO WELFARE NOMADS PROGRAMMERS TO THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING DIVISION. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani noted Policy Decision No. 5 was on hold. She asked Ms. Kavanau to address Policy Decision No. 6 regarding internal shifts within the division. Ms. Case explained the division was attempting to combine the positions that perform similar tasks. The hardware and network staff will be combined into one budget and one pool. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO ALLOW THE TRANSFER OF ONE COMPUTER SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER FROM THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION TO THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING FOR DASD SUPPORT AND ALLOW THE DIVISION TO MOVE SEVEN POSITIONS, INCLUDING ONE INFORMATION SYSTEMS SPECIALIST, TWO COMPUTER SYSTEMS PROGRAMMERS, TWO COMPUTER NETWORK SPECIALISTS AND TWO COMPUTER NETWORK TECHNICIANS FROM THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING DIVISION TO THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION. MS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani presented Policy Decision No. 7 for discussion. Mr. Burke stated within the SPIRIT document, one of the recommendations is to move information technology positions that do not have the professional support into the data center (DIS). While the agencies' budgets reflect a reduction to transfer the positions out, none of the budget accounts properly reflect the amount of funding required to provide support at DIS. Ms. Kavanau noted the positions were directly billed; no agency would pay for any service they did not get. She explained DIS has had detailed discussions in each agency impacted and examined the job being performed. In some cases DIS came to the conclusion that the work they were doing that was non-IT related was in excess of 50 percent of their time. The division agreed it would be more appropriate for the positions to be reclassified. Senator O'Donnell testified agencies were reporting to him that they were apprehensive about DIS charges. Ms. Kavanau stated the agencies have the same overhead costs as DIS. What is not seen in their salary level is all of the overhead to support their present position. Chairman Giunchigliani asked whether DIS would be willing to bill for salary and operating costs only. Ms. Kavanau replied DIS must bill for the same service at the same rate; she could not do it. MS. TIFFANY MOVED NOT TO CONSOLIDATE THE PROGRAMERS AS RECOMMENDED IN THE SPIRIT DOCUMENT. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED. CHAIRMAN GIUNCHIGLIANI AND MRS. EVANS VOTED NO. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Senator O'Donnell stated it should be mentioned Mr. Burke will have to make the necessary proper technical adjustments in that area. Chairman Giunchigliani added Self-Insurance, Waste Management, Health Officer and Real Estate budget accounts would have to be adjusted. Ms. Tiffany felt professionals were not in the right classifications within agencies and could not stay current with technology or proper management of their networks. She, however, agreed with the intent. Ms. Tiffany stated she would like to take one faction of the three being examined for consolidation such as the microcomputer specialists. She recommended consolidating the group, making them accountable by keeping performance indicators, performing surveys regarding agency satisfaction, tracking salary costs and return the results to the committee. She said if the experiment is successful, the committee will have to discuss space and weigh the feedback from the agencies that will be impacted. Ms. Tiffany stated she was not in favor of consolidation at this time, however, would consider the action during the next biennium. Ms. Kavanau stated DIS would not object to working on the consolidation plan in small steps. She asked the committee to consider giving DIS a letter of intent supporting the concepts in SPIRIT. Mrs. Evans noted the DIS proposal seemed to already be in the first phase and queried was this not already a small step? Ms. Kavanau concurred this was the first phase and explained the employees represent only the Carson City area as DIS does not have a presence in Las Vegas or other areas of Nevada. Ms. Kavanau believed their request was a minimal step and expressed concern over what will continue to happen in agencies if DIS does not consolidate. Ms. Evans remarked she supported the transfers in Phase One. Ms. Case commented the segment of staff was very small, yet it was an area within SPIRIT that was causing some of the largest problems on a statewide basis in terms of the ability to ensure cost efficiency and effective use of technology. She noted the committee could set DIS up to fail by adopting a plan that was acceptable in concept, however, would not give the division the ability to be able to implement it. She said if DIS did not have the support of some degree of control over insuring its implementation, the committee will continue to see what they have seen and DIS will continue to take the blame. She stressed it was almost impossible for DIS to oversee agency activities unless they had some degree of control over the technology arena. By not consolidating the staff, DIS's involvement and control are lessened. She cited the Department of Education as a clear example of an agency needing professional guidance. Chairman Giunchigliani requested Mr. Burke to review Policy Decision No. 8, Facility Management Division (FMD) Cost Redistribution. Mr. Burke reported subsequent to the preparation of the Governor's Recommended budget, the agency experienced a shift in the costs of the Facility Management Division. The Systems and Programming Division (SPD), up until recently, had been a 40 percent user of the facility services. With the impact of the NOMADS system, the division has risen to a 53 percent user. In order to reflect the increase, the SPD customers will be charged $1,082,802 in FY 1996 and $1,046,659 in 1997; the facility direct customers would be charged less. It is a redistribution of the costs to the appropriate agencies. On an overall basis, there is sufficient authority to make the additional payments. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO SUPPORT THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION COST REDISTRIBUTION. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Mr. Burke explained Policy Decision No. 8, Software Cost Increase. He indicated the Facility Management Division testified during various committee meetings that the Governor's Recommended budget does not reflect sufficient funding to pay for the software upgrades to support the mainframe upgrade. In addition to what is in the Governor's Recommended budget, the agency needs an additional $820,000 in FY 1996 and $254,140 in FY 1997. Policy Decision No. 9 reflects the Systems and Programming Division's share of the costs. Senator O'Donnell asked for a clarification of the costs. Ms. Kavanau replied they were unanticipated costs with existing vendors due to the computer upgrade. Senator O'Donnell asked what ISSC was doing. Mrs. Kavanau stated ISSC has offered to temporarily upgrade in order to accommodate their needs until such time when DIS will have their upgrade installed. Senator O'Donnell requested specific upgrade model and part numbers. Ms. Kavanau reported DIS is currently using an ES9000, model 500. The ISSC temporary upgrade will be a model 580. In The Executive Budget DIS requests an upgrade to a model 821 which would accommodate the capacity planning they have done. Ms. Tiffany asked whether a set amount awarded by the Legislature for software equipment would help with purchasing negotiations. Ms. Kavanau stated from a management perspective it could be used as leverage, however, she was worried the committee would not fund them thus halting their operation; they could not do without any of the software upgrades. Ms. Tiffany asked whether vendors normally gave the state a 25 percent discount. Ms. Case responded the numbers were not retail prices. She said they were attempting to negotiate some of the prices and believed they would be somewhat successful. She did not believe it would be anywhere close to 25 percent based upon the agency's negotiations thus far. Ms. Kavanau suggested DIS provide a report as they complete negotiations with the software vendor. Senator O'Donnell commented vendors were aware of what the Legislature had budgeted for specific items and asked how soon DIS could negotiate the software contract for the mainframe upgrade. Ms. Kavanau indicated the prices on a variety of products were not in print anywhere. She added the single item was not identified in the budget as DIS did not want to make the information public as the government would lose its position to negotiate. Ms. Kavanau suggested DIS could deaugment the budget once they had completed their negotiations for any amount that was not specifically paid to the vendors they had previously identified to the committee's staff. Senator O'Donnell suggested depositing the money in the reserve, allow DIS to negotiate the price and return to IFC for approval. Ms. Kavanau responded DIS would take the Senator's suggestion into consideration. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMMING BUDGET ACCORDING TO THE TECHNICAL AND POLICY CHANGES MADE BY THE COMMITTEE. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Mrs. Evans asked Ms. Kavanau to submit a memorandum to the committee regarding their proposed activities for the next two years. Chairman Giunchigliani turned the committee's attention to the Facility Management Division budget. She noted the committee was holding decision on the additional software portion of the policy. Ms. Kavanau reported DIS had reached capacity and believed their request was not excessive. She added the purchase was not line itemed and, therefore, would not restrict the agencies to negotiate the package. Ms. Tiffany addressed ISSC's temporary upgrade and asked whether the state could delay the mainframe upgrade to a model 821. Ms. Kavanau replied a delay was not possible in that DIS needed the larger upgrade immediately and hoped to have it installed in July should the request be approved by the Legislature. Ms. Kavanau said the ISSC upgrade will be installed on May 6, 1995 and will remain until the new upgrade is received in July. Senator O'Donnell asked whether the purchases would be made from dealers, corporations, or OEM. Ms. Case replied their purchase would be made through anyone giving DIS the best deal. Senator O'Donnell suggested the appropriation be deposited into reserve while DIS negotiates prices and have the agency return to IFC with the request for a specific amount. Ms. Kavanau stressed their only concern was timing. Mr. Ghiggeri indicated DIS would have to negotiate the price before the Legislature adjourns as IFC will not meet again until October 1995. Senator O'Donnell asked whether DIS could supply a firm price before the legislative session ended. Ms. Kavanau said vendors will be willing to talk about a final price once DIS has cash in hand. Senator O'Donnell said that method was not how the Legislature worked. Ms. Case felt DIS could proceed. Due to escalating prices in the hardware arena, the budgeted amount would not be close to today's realistic prices. She said, however, DIS hoped to negotiate and purchase the hardware for what they had budgeted. Senator O'Donnell asked Ms. Case to supply him with the exact model and part numbers pertaining to their hardware order. Ms. Case acknowledged she would happy to comply with the request. Mr. Price questioned the $150,000 purchase price for a laserprinter. Ms. Case replied the laserprinter was designed to operate off of a mainframe, not a single personal computer. The division's current laserprinter operates seven days a week, 24-hours a day and is an equivalent of that being requested. Ms. Tiffany asked whether DIS had issued an RFP on the hardware. Mrs. Kavanau replied it was her understanding DIS sent the purchase requisition to Purchasing. Ms. Case indicated DIS had several direct contracts with IBM. IBM used to offer state and local government procurement agreements which would allow the division to know exactly what kind of discounts could be expected on acquisitions. Due to company reorganization, IBM no longer offers the service. Ms. Case stated DIS would utilize the bidding process through the Purchasing Division specifying exact part numbers (upgrade to an IBM machine). Chairman Giunchigliani announced the committee would continue discussing DIS purchasing techniques at a later time. She indicated computer upgrade and software policies would be held. She turned the committee's attention to the internal Facility Management reorganization. MS. BROWER MOVED TO APPROVE THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS DIVISIONS INTO A SINGLE SYSTEMS DIVISION. MS. TIFFANY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani asked the committee whether they wished to address Policy Decision No. 2. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE THE NETWORK UPGRADES, ONE COMPUTER SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER AND FUNDING FOR THE HOT- SITE ASSOCIATED WITH DISASTER RECOVERY AS REQUESTED IN MODULE E-125. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani presented Policy Decision No. 4 for the committee's comments. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO ALLOW THE TRANSFER OF ONE COMPUTER SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER FROM THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION TO THE SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMING FOR DASD SUPPORT AND ALLOW THE DIVISION TO MOVE SEVEN POSITIONS TO THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani introduced Policy Decision No. 6 for committee discussion. Referring to the microcomputer specialist, Ms. Tiffany felt this area could be used for a trial on consolidation. She also requested that DIS keep performance indicators and survey customers so the committee will be able to track billable versus salary versus operating cost and determine whether the agencies are satisfied with the service. In addition Ms. Tiffany requested DIS report to IFC every six months. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO ALLOW DIS TO CONSOLIDATE THE MICROCOMPUTER SPECIALIST AND REQUESTED THEY REPORT TO THE INTERIM FINANCE COMMITTEE EVERY SIX MONTHS WITH PERFORMANCE INDICATORS AND AGENCY SURVEYS AND INCORPORATE THE NECESSARY TECHNICAL ADJUSTMENTS. MS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO ALLOW DIS TO CONSOLIDATE THE MICROCOMPUTER SPECIALIST POSITIONS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE POSITION IN THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE. SENATOR JACOBSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. SENATOR MATHEWS VOTED NO. Referring to Senator O'Donnell's motion, Ms. Kavanau stated the Secretary of State was on the state's mainframe, not on the HP. Senator O'Donnell said the office had told him they were going to be using Novell. Ms. Case said they already have a network and Secretary of State Heller was in complete accord with the division's recommendation. Senator O'Donnell wished his motion to stand. Chairman Giunchigliani recommended the issue be clarified before joint budget closings occurred and offered to speak to Mr. Heller. Chairman Giunchigliani introduced Policy Decision No. 7 for the committee's consideration. MS. TIFFANY MOVED THE COMMITTEE NOT CONSOLIDATE THE SIXTEEN COMMUNICATION POSITIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES. MR. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. Mrs. Evans asked for more information on the subject. Ms. Kavanau explained the communications systems is just another mode of communication similar to computers, telephones or imaging systems. She indicated the staffs are fragmented which creates duplication and accountability problems. She stated if the committee felt it was more appropriate for public safety agencies to have their own communication specialists, two references in NRS 242 that currently exclude the NCIC Application as one of two agencies in the Executive Branch that DIS does not have oversight of should be changed. Ms. Kavanau recommended it be renamed "Public Safety" which would make the entity responsible for all of their own information technology. If such was the committee's intent, Ms. Kavanau said she would recommend the committee grant DIS the nine communication specialists in DOT as they do nothing different than the staff that are presently in their agency. Senator O'Donnell asked where the nine DOT communications specialists would be housed. Ms. Kavanau stated the specialists would stay in place, only the supervisor would be housed in the DIS office; most of the specialists spend most of their time in the field. Ms. Case said the three separate agencies are performing similar functions in respect to mobile communications and if the staff can be pulled together and their resources analyzed, DIS will be able to provide more service for less cost. She added there was obvious duplication, overlapping and redundancy in the mobile communications arena. Ms. Case stated each agency presently has a supervisor, however, if consolidation should be approved, three supervisors would no longer be needed. Mr. Price asked for a clarification regarding chain of command procedures. Ms. Case replied she did not believe a supervisor was necessary in the course of doing routine service calls. If the technician's responsibility is to keep radios running and they know that on a daily basis, they should be able to be called, dispatched and make the repair without supervisory intervention. If the party was not responsible with the quality of repair or response time, a supervisor or parent agency could be contacted. DIS has a number of technicians that respond for a number of repair services and should be able to perform the work without being directed to do so by a supervisor. Ms. Tiffany rescinded her first motion. She was convinced the Department of Transportation, not the Department of Motor Vehicles, should be included. She stressed the committee would want to see agency surveys, history of billable hours, satisfaction, and performance indicators. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO TRANSFER NINE COMMUNICATIONS POSITIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES AS REFLECTED IN MODULE E-911. MR. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Senator Jacobsen stated there were always exceptions to rules and this was one of them. He believed the nature of activity of anyone who deals with public safety needs to be set apart by itself. He supported the new motion which left public safety in and of itself. He felt all types of DOT emergency equipment had to be tied together. Chairman Giunchigliani responded the Senators would have to decide their own policy regarding how they wanted to handle DOT; the Assemblymen were leaving Public Safety separate and consolidating the DOT portion. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED NOT TO CONSOLIDATE ANY OF THE SIXTEEN COMMUNICATION POSITIONS. SECONDED BY SENATOR JACOBSEN. THE MOTION CARRIED. SENATOR MATHEWS VOTED NO. Chairman Giunchigliani presented Policy Decision No. 8, General Payback for Capital Improvement items, for the committee's consideration. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO ADD A GENERAL FUND PAYBACK CATEGORY TO THE FMD BUDGET FOR THE ALARM AND GENERATOR ACQUISITION, HOWEVER, IF C.P. MAKES ADDITIONAL ADJUSTMENTS THE COMMITTEE WILL HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES AT THAT POINT IN TIME. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE FACILITY MANAGEMENT DIVISION BUDGET ACCOUNT BASED ON THE CHANGES MADE BY THE COMMITTEE REGARDING THE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE UPGRADE. MRS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani turned the committee's attention to the Telecommunications Division budget, Policy No. 1, approval of a new Communications Specialist position as reflected in the M-200 module. Ms. Tiffany felt since the division can fill ninety percent of their service requests within 48-hours there was no need to increase the staff. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO NOT RECOMMEND THE NEW COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST POSITION. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. MRS. EVANS VOTED NO. Ms. Kavanau registered her concern regarding servicing the new Grant Sawyer building arena. Chairman Giunchigliani acknowledged the committee understood the concern and if the workload became too great, it could be dealt with through IFC. SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUDGET. MRS. BROWER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SECONDED BY SENATOR JACOBSEN. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Chairman Giunchigliani addressed the Communications Division budget. Mr. Burke reported the division asked for several upgrades in the enhancement modules. He noted the enhancement funding is not included in the budgets of the agencies that would be impacted. The Governor's budget did not assume any new users coming on to the system and it would appear reasonable the division can get 8 percent growth each year in revenue. If the Governor's recommended budget were to be changed and the 8 percent growth realized, the prioritized projects, E-710, battery banks; E-125, new personnel; E-125, site refurbishment and E-125, new vehicle could be fully funded. The microwave study was left out of the options, a $150,000 a year project. Mr. Burke reported the Budget Director provided a revised request two days ago that asked the committee to consider using highway funds to fund the microwave study. Ms. Tiffany testified she supported the microwave study. She asked Ms. Kavanau who the lead agency would be in the study. Ms. Kavanau replied DIS would have an evaluation committee composed of DOT and DMV (the two largest users of the system) and prisons; there would be a balance of agency users. Ms. Tiffany indicated the committee needed to check on the legality of using the money for this type of study. She requested DIS return with information in regard to the authorship of the RFP, the members of the evaluation committee and how the information would be presented to IFC. Chairman Giunchigliani concluded the committee would hold the 800 megahertz. She felt the committee should make a decision on Policy Decision No. 5. Ms. Tiffany requested DIS supply a report indicating who was going to perform the RFP, who was going to sit on the taskforce, and how it would be recommended back to IFC. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO APPROVE A MORE LIMITED REQUEST FINANCED WITH EXISTING REVENUE SOURCES AND NEW USER REVENUE. MS. EVANS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MS. TIFFANY MOVED TO CLOSE THE COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION BUDGET WITH THE EXCEPTIONS NOTED. MR. PRICE SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. SENATOR JACOBSEN MOVED TO CONCUR WITH THE ASSEMBLY'S MOTION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The meeting adjourned at 11:15 a.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Janine Sprout, Committee Secretary Joint Subcommittee on General Government Assembly Committee on Ways and Means Senate Committee on Finance April 20, 1995 Page