MINUTES OF THE JOINT SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING OF SENATE COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS Sixty-eighth Session April 18, 1995 The joint subcommittee meeting on Public Safety/Natural Resources/Transportation of the Senate Committee on Finance and the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means was called to order by Chairman Lawrence E. Jacobsen, at 7:55 a.m., on Tuesday, April 18, 1995, in Room 321 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. SENATE COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Chairman Senator William R. O'Donnell Senator Bernice Mathews ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Mr. Thomas W. Fettic, Chairman Mr. Larry L. Spitler, Chairman Mr. John W. Marvel Ms. Chris Giunchigliani ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT: Mr. Morse Arberry, Jr. (Excused) Mr. Jack D. Close (Excused) STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Bob Guernsey, Principal Deputy Fiscal Analyst Gary Ghiggeri, Principal Deputy Fiscal Analyst Jeanne L. Botts, Program Analyst Cristin Buchanan, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Peter G. Morros, Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Don Hataway, Chief Assistant Budget Administrator, Department of Administration Dick Reavis, Deputy Administrator, Air, Mining and Water Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Verne Rosse, Deputy Administrator, Corrective Action, Federal Facilities and Waste Management Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Pamela B. Wilcox, Administrator and State Land Registrar, Division of State Lands, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources R. Michael Turnipseed, P.E., State Engineer, Division of Water Resources, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Natural Resources Administration - Page 1879 Senator Jacobsen began the hearing, indicating the existence of unresolved issues in the conservation budgets. He asked if it will be prudent for the accounting and budgeting functions of the department to be supervised by an Administrative Services Officer. He also questioned the upgrade of an Administrative Services Officer II to an Administrative Services Officer III to oversee the accounting functions of the department and supervision of staff. Peter G. Morros, Director, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, indicated with the passage of Assembly Bill (A.B.) 129, he will be hiring additional staff. ASSEMBLY BILL 129: Makes supplemental appropriations to state department of conservation and natural resources for additional staff and equipment for state administrative offices. Mr. Morros explained the new staff will relieve the Administrative Services Officer from performing routine accounting duties in order to allow her to supervise staff and perform the necessary financial management responsibilities of her position. In support of upgrading the Administrative Services Officer position, Mr. Morros testified: As far as an upgrade...when we get through overhauling the Division of Forestry and the financial management structure in that division, along with additional staff in the other divisions, her level of responsibility is going to go up substantially, and I think it merits that upgrade. Mr. Spitler articulated his support for the proposed changes in the department, stating it will enable the department to operate in a more efficient manner. Voicing his support of the proposed changes, Mr. Marvel pointed out the need to define the fiscal responsibilities within the department Ms. Giunchigliani requested an explanation why the Governor recommended upgrading the Administrative Services Officer from a grade 39 to a grade 41 rather than to a grade 44, as outlined in a memorandum dated April 11, 1995 (Exhibit C). Mr. Morros responded: With the work load and the level of duties and responsibilities imposed on the Administrative Services Officer under the present structure, she is...not going to have the time to function in an oversight responsibility, which is what she should be doing...The director's office, in the past, has provided all accounting services...by a two-member accounting staff out of the director's office and the work load level has gone beyond the point where that can continue. Ms. Giunchigliani supported the position upgrade. Mr. Morros added he would like to see the Administrative Services Officer function as an internal auditor to insure that a situation similar to the one that occurred in the Division of Forestry will not happen again. Ms. Giunchigliani inquired if Mr. Morros is aware the Internal Audit Committee is going to audit the Nevada Division of Wildlife. Mr. Morros answered in the affirmative and stated the department requested the audit. Ms. Giunchigliani questioned if the Administrative Services Officer has the skills to conduct a thorough probe into the Division of Forestry. Mr. Morros indicated since the Administrative Services Officer will be working out of the Director's Office, the Division of Forestry can be managed properly. He added: I just want to make sure I do not develop any more problems and that is why I have asked the internal auditors to come in and take a look at a few of these other things. There have been questions raised about wildlife in terms of their uncommitted reserves and their committed reserve. Ms. Giunchigliani asked, "That is the reason they [the Nevada Division of Wildlife] are on their [the Internal Audit Committee] list versus forestry; because you feel forestry can be handled, because we have already had the audit?" Jeanne L. Botts, Program Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, pointed out: The budget recommends the position of Administrative Services Officer remain at grade 39. In the closing sheets, I have it budgeted at 41, and you have in front of you...a letter form Director Morros (Exhibit C) recommending a grade 44 for the position. That issue needs to be decided. Senator Jacobsen asked Mr. Morros for his opinion on the reclassification. Mr. Morros indicated he strongly feels the position should be upgraded based upon the duties of that position. Senator Jacobsen addressed whether there will be a problem eliminating the State Climatologist budget and transferring the climatologist to the director's office. Mr. Morros announced, "We can work with him. We will probably enter into a contract with the university." Senator Jacobsen explained should the transfer of the climatologist occur, a bill draft will have to be submitted to change the appointment from the Governor over to the director of the department. Don Hataway, Chief Assistant Budget Administrator, Department of Administration, clarified under the current statute, the Governor appoints the State Climatologist with the approval of the university system. He stated, should a contract be entered into with the university, the statute will need to be changed to give authority to the university system to appoint the climatologist subject to the approval of the director of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. Ms. Botts reviewed the Budget Closing Action sheet for the division (Exhibit D). Mr. Marvel questioned if a bill draft request (BDR) has been requested with reference to the proposed transfer of the State Climatologist. Ms. Botts responded in the negative. Mr. Morros provided a brief history of the department. He stated in 1978, the department had approximately 221 full-time employees, eight of which were in the director's office, and a budget of about $14 million. Today, the department has over 700 full-time employees, four of which are in the director's office, and a budget of approximately $75 million. He stated: We had two assistant directors back in those days [1978]; both of those positions became victims of budget cuts. My intent would be to utilize the Administrative Services Officer basically in that function, as an assistant director in charge of finance and personnel. Senator Jacobsen questioned if the department has considered requesting an assistant director position. Mr. Morros answered in the affirmative and stated he is exploring the options with the Administrative Services Officer before he will consider requesting an assistant director position. Mr. Marvel voiced his support of transferring the State Climatologist to the director's office. Mr. Spitler announced his support of upgrading the Administrative Services Officer and transferring the State Climatologist to the director's office of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. Mr. Fettic concurred with Mr. Spitler's support. Senator Jacobsen reminded the committee a request for a BDR needs to be included in the motion. MR. MARVEL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 4 AND 5 OF EXHIBIT D, WITH THE RECLASSIFICATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES OFFICER II TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES OFFICER III, GRADE 44. MS. GIUNCHIGLIANI SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 4 AND 5 OF EXHIBIT D, INCLUDING A REQUEST FOR A BILL DRAFT REQUEST. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Gary Ghiggeri, Principal Deputy Fiscal Analyst, Fiscal Analysis Division, Legislative Counsel Bureau, pointed out that by recommending an upgrade, the Legislature is simply appropriating the funds for the increase in salary. He stated the State Department of Personnel will review the proposed upgrade and will make the final decision. Environmental Protection Administration - Page 1883 Dick Reavis, Deputy Administrator, Air, Mining and Water Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, provided a brief overview of the duties of the Ombudsman, as required by the Clean Air Act. He spoke of expanding the duties of the Ombudsman to include the other programs within the Division of Environmental Protection (DEP). Mr. Marvel questioned if the division keeps track of requests for assistance from small businesses. Mr. Reavis responded the division had no staff member to assist small businesses prior to the hiring of the Ombudsman and did not track requests for such assistance. Mr. Marvel questioned when the Ombudsman was hired. Mr. Reavis stated the Ombudsman was hired approximately 2 or 3 weeks ago. Mr. Marvel queried whether any federal relief will be offered regarding landfill restrictions. Verne Rosse, Deputy Administrator, Corrective Action, Federal Facilities and Waste Management Programs, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, responded according to information he has received, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is apparently going to issue a 2-year extension on small area landfill requirements. Mr. Fettic inquired as to the difference in job duties and responsibilities between the Ombudsman and the Environmental Management Specialist III. Mr. Reavis clarified the Ombudsman assists small business owners with the regulations and requirements that must be met. The Environmental Management Specialist provides technical assistance to the businesses, similar to the role of a consulting engineer. Mr. Fettic questioned the necessity of the two positions. Mr. Reavis reflected with the difference in responsibility between the two positions, "they will probably be overworked rather than under worked." Mr. Spitler declared his support for the Ombudsman position; however, he requested more information on the Environmental Management Specialist III position before endorsement. Mr. Fettic voiced his support for the Environmental Management Specialist III position. He asserted, "I would like to see more justification for that EMS III (Environmental Management Specialist III) because I think it could be justified out in the rurals...They are getting pinned between a rock and a hard place by some of these federal programs." Ms. Botts reviewed the change in the budget for equipment, as outlined on page 7 of Exhibit D. Mr. Hataway clarified at the time the budget was formulated, the department understood the furniture for the new Las Vegas state office building would belong to the building and not to the individual agencies renting the office space. He stated, "If that is the case, then there is no problem." He then requested the committee to grant the Budget Division and Fiscal Division flexibility regarding the statewide Cost Allocation Plan and the Attorney General's Cost Allocation plan. He commented: Mr. Dodgion [Administrator, Division of Environmental Protection, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources] raised a couple of questions on the Attorney General Cost Allocation, particularly as it relates to the environmental commission, one which I think is a legitimate situation. So the cost allocation that is tentatively assigned to the environmental protection area probably will go down and be transferred over to the environmental commission's responsibility. I would like to merely have the flexibility to work with Jeannie [Botts] to get that issue resolved. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 6 AND 7 OF EXHIBIT D. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** MR. MARVEL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 6 AND 7 OF EXHIBIT D. MS. GIUNCHIGLIANI SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** Air Quality - Page 1889 Ms. Botts commented on the unresolved issues in this budget account, as outlined on pages 8 and 9 of Exhibit D. Senator Jacobsen asked Mr. Reavis to comment on whether he believes the federal government will delay implementation of the program. Mr. Reavis reflected his opinion is the federal government will not delay implementation of the Title V air permit program. He stated the EPA will most likely take action next month on the plan submitted by the division which will give the state of Nevada the authority to issue federal air permits. He commented the nine additional positions the division is requesting is a conservative number in comparison to 27 staff recommended by the EPA. Senator Jacobsen questioned if the EPA will withdraw authority for the state to issue federal permits if all of the requested positions are not filled. Mr. Reavis surmised that if the state fails to provide all the positions as outlined in the plan submitted to the EPA, the state will run a large risk of losing the program. Senator Jacobsen asked if the division works closely with the deputy administrator of the regional office. Mr. Reavis answered in the affirmative. Mr. Marvel queried as to the remaining capacity the state has to achieve clean air standards. Mr. Reavis reviewed that Clark County and Washoe County have non- attainment for carbon monoxide and PM10 particulate matter and Clark County is close to non-attainment for ozone. He stated Battle Mountain is close to non-attainment for PM 10 particulate matter. He summarized, "With the exception of...the really clean, low population counties, we do not have a lot of capacity in our counties, that are growing." Mr. Marvel asked if the Valmy Power Plant is contaminating the county in which it is located. Mr. Reavis acknowledged the power plant does not contaminate the air as significantly as it was first projected; however it does emit PM 10 particulate matter into the air. Mr. Marvel queried what effect areas with non-attainment have on economic development. Mr. Reavis reflected areas that are in non-attainment status are required to develop an attainment plan and demonstrate how they can get back into an attainment position. He stated there is a requirement for a 2 to 1 offset and explained: New industry that comes in, if it puts out carbon monoxide...has to figure out a way to buy-out something that is producing carbon monoxide at the rate of twice what they are going to produce. Same way with PM 10...Being in a non-attainment area has some significant impact on economic development. Senator Jacobsen asked if the additional positions will generate more in permit fees and Mr. Reavis answered in the affirmative. Mr. Fettic inquired if the division anticipates raising permit fees in order to fund the nine additional positions. Mr. Reavis answered in the negative and stated there will be no permit fee increases for the next 2 years. Mr. Fettic pointed out that some federal regulations are unattainable and asked if the state intends to adopt similar regulations. Mr. Reavis replied the state will adopt regulations which will keep air quality high without putting Nevada industry out of business. He pointed out: ...If an industry is going to be put out of business by an action, we modify that action, and over time work with that business to make sure that they still remain productive in terms of Nevada's economy. [The] Federal Government does not really care about economics...in fact, it is specifically in the act, that a permit cannot take into account [the] economy. The worst thing that could happen to any state is for the federal government to come in and implement federal permits in that state. MS. GIUNCHIGLIANI MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 8 AND 9 OF EXHIBIT D. MR. MARVEL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE. MR. SPITLER VOTED NO.) ***** SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 8 AND 9 OF EXHIBIT D. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Waste Management and Federal Facilities - Page 1899 Ms. Botts reviewed the unresolved issues as outlined on pages 10 and 11 of Exhibit D. Senator O'Donnell disagreed with the Department of Information Services' (DISs) interpretation that the Legislature's intent is to consolidate computer technicians/ analysts into a pool within DIS. He proclaimed: ...I am not in favor of moving these positions over. First of all, we have federal audit concerns...these people are doing more than one service. Not only are they maintaining the computer, but they are maintaining a data base, which is entirely different. I have...concerns about moving these people...to the Department of Information Services, only to have them farmed out to some other agency on a day-by-day basis to work on somebody else's computer that they have no idea what they are doing. I am not in favor of it. I am not in favor of closing this budget as it is. I would want to put these positions back in. Mr. Marvel agreed with Senator O'Donnell's comments, stating it is premature to make the decision to transfer those positions. Mr. Fettic inquired whether the proposed transfer of the three positions has to do with the Strategic Plan for Information Resources and Information Technology (SPIRIT). Ms. Botts answered in the affirmative. Senator O'Donnell gave a review of the SPIRIT plan and stated, "...As far as I am concerned, it is nothing...and it changes day- to-day." Mr. Fettic concurred with Senator O'Donnell and Mr. Marvel on the issue to deny the transfer of positions. MR. MARVEL MOVED TO HOLD THE BUDGET. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ASSEMBLY: THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) SENATE: THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator O'Donnell asked Mr. Morros to revisit the necessity of the four requested positions if the three computer technicians/analysts are not transferred to DIS. Ms. Botts clarified: I wanted to point out...there was some question as to whether or not they [the computer technicians/analysts] would be lost. Even though they were being transferred to the Department of Information Services [DIS], that was ostensibly so they could be supervised and trained by...the DIS...They were still supposed to be providing services...almost 100 percent, to this division...the worry is that over time, they would not be providing services to the division.... Ms. Giunchigliani questioned whether the division would have requested the four new positions had the three computer technicians/analysts not been proposed to be transferred. Mr. Morros responded in the affirmative. Mr. Fettic expressed concern over the possibility the division may request additional staff to replace the three positions, if they are transferred. Water and Mining - Page 1905 Ms. Botts reviewed the decisions to be made by the committee as outlined in Exhibit D. Mr. Reavis asserted the Management Assistant I, as proposed, will have the responsibility to collect fees. He clarified there are two other Management Assistants within the Bureau of Water Pollution Control; however, those positions are responsible for 22 staff members, in addition to collecting incoming fees. Ms. Botts clarified the requested positions in this budget account are recommended to begin October 1, 1995. Senator Jacobsen questioned how the division appropriates the $700,000 in federal water pollution control grant funds. Mr. Reavis declared the funds are disbursed, "...in response to proposals that are made for different types of non-point source pollution control. It is an open competition...." Senator O'Donnell inquired as to the additional cost to the state if the Management Assistant I position begins July 1, 1995 rather than October 1, 1995. Ms. Botts stated the additional cost will be $6,439 if that position is not deferred until October 1, 1995. MR. SPITLER MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 12 OF EXHIBIT D. MR. MARVEL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 12 OF EXHIBIT D. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Division of Conservation Districts - Page 1913 Ms. Botts reviewed page 13 of Exhibit D, outlining the issues to be resolved in this budget. Pamela B. Wilcox, Administrator and State Land Registrar, Division of State Lands, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, explained: We did recommend that the clerical position be increased to full- time...because this program provides support to conservation districts all over the state...The Management Assistant has had to take on much heavier accounting duties than she used to...We have had to stop publishing the newsletter...it would be advantageous to this agency to have this position be restored to full- time. Mr. Marvel queried how wide is the newsletter circulation. Ms. Wilcox responded the newsletter is distributed to approximately 200 conservation districts statewide in addition to other individuals in the conservation network. Mr. Marvel asked if the division assists in flood control. Ms. Wilcox answered in the affirmative. She clarified conservation districts participate in any incident or activity that has to do with resource conservation, and they offer assistance to counties which are in need of their resources. MR. MARVEL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 13 OF EXHIBIT D, INCLUDING INCREASING THE MANAGEMENT ASSISTANT POSITION TO FULL-TIME. MR. SPITLER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 13 OF EXHIBIT D, INCLUDING INCREASING THE MANAGEMENT ASSISTANT POSITION TO FULL-TIME. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Division of State Lands - Page 1919 Ms. Botts reviewed the issues pertaining to this budget, as outlined on pages 14 and 15 of Exhibit D. Ms. Wilcox indicated the division's acceptance of the budget recommendations made by the Fiscal Division. MR. MARVEL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 14 AND 15 OF EXHIBIT D, INCLUDING A CONTINGENCY TO REOPEN THE BUDGET PENDING LEGISLATION. MR. SPITLER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** SENATOR MATHEWS MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGES 14 AND 15 OF EXHIBIT D, INCLUDING A CONTINGENCY TO REOPEN THE BUDGET PENDING LEGISLATION. SENATOR O'DONNELL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Ms. Botts indicated to the committee a bill draft will be required to enable the division to deposit fees collected into the General Fund. She pointed out that a bill was passed last session which requires fees collected by the division to be deposited into an account within the division. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED FOR A BILL DRAFT REQUEST. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. ASSEMBLY: THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) SENATE: THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Carey Act - State Lands - Page 1925 Ms. Botts reviewed the activities of the division, as shown on page 16 of Exhibit D. MS. GIUNCHIGLIANI MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET AS RECOMMENDED BY THE GOVERNOR ON PAGE 16 OF EXHIBIT D. MR. MARVEL SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET AS RECOMMENDED BY THE GOVERNOR ON PAGE 16 OF EXHIBIT D. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Nevada Tahoe Regional Planning Agency - Page 2009 Ms. Botts reviewed the issues pertaining to this budget as shown on page 32 of Exhibit D. Ms. Wilcox commented the division agrees with the budget as presented. SENATOR O'DONNELL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 32 OF EXHIBIT D. SENATOR MATHEWS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** MR. MARVEL MOVED TO RECOMMEND CLOSING THE BUDGET IN ACCORDANCE WITH STAFF PROPOSALS ON PAGE 32 OF EXHIBIT D. MR. SPITLER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) ***** Division of Water Resources - Page 1955 Ms. Botts examined the issues in this budget, as contained on pages 17 through 21 of Exhibit D. R. Michael Turnipseed, P.E., State Engineer, Division of Water Resources, State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, commented: When we had prepared our budget, we requested seven new positions to begin to work into this backlog. When I was before this committee before, Mr. Spitler asked me how many people it would take to completely reduce the backlog. We started going through the different people that would be required to completely reduce the backlog...and came up with 20... Senator O'Donnell reflected if 20 positions are added to the division, once the backlog is eliminated, the positions will no longer be necessary. He questioned, "Would it be more prudent to allow you a contract...for individual services to come in and help you out in the short-term, knowing full well that their contract would end at a time certain?" Mr. Turnipseed stated he had not considered using contracts inasmuch as the 20 positions will be a combination of clerical, technicians and professional staff, of which many of those positions could sunset at the end of a 5 or 6 year period. Senator O'Donnell declared: What I am concerned about is whether or not we are going to be keeping these people, a staff of 20, after the backlog is done, when we only really need seven to accommodate the ongoing problem. But if you are telling me it is going to take 6 years, with 20 people, to do the backlog, then you could probably do that with attrition instead of contract. Mr. Turnipseed agreed with Senator O'Donnell's remarks. He indicated the division has a high attrition rate. Senator O'Donnell requested clarification concerning whether to hire additional staff to generate additional revenue, "essentially paying for the increase in staff." Mr. Turnipseed confirmed the additional positions will generate a substantial increase in fees; however, not enough to completely offset the cost of adding the positions. Senator O'Donnell expressed his concern over the backlog of water permits causing delays to builders. Mr. Turnipseed acknowledged Senator O'Donnell's concern. Mr. Marvel questioned what the division vacancy factor is at the present time. As of last week, Mr. Turnipseed indicated the division has four vacancies. Mr. Marvel inquired about the amount the division has accrued in vacancy savings. Mr. Turnipseed surmised the division accrued approximately $30,000 in vacancy savings last year. Mr. Marvel asked if the division has considered charging an expedite fee. Expressing reservations that use of expedite fees may result in lawsuits, Mr. Turnipseed indicated the division already processes water permit applications based on the applicant and the urgency of the permit. Ms. Giunchigliani questioned the status of Senate Bill (S.B.) 77. SENATE BILL 77: Requires state engineer to establish program to map water rights. Mr. Turnipseed responded the amount appropriated in S.B. 77 will sunset after the second year. He indicated the project will probably take 2 « years to complete, at which point he will be able to move on and map other areas of the state. Ms. Giunchigliani clarified the mapping project primarily deals with the Truckee River area before it will move to other parts of the state. She queried, "...The issue is you will have everybody in place so it will be much quicker, much cheaper...in order to do the rest of the state?" Mr. Turnipseed answered, "That is correct. It should greatly enhance our titling effort..." Mr. Turnipseed commented by having a mapping process already completed, the title checks can be accomplished more rapidly. Ms. Giunchigliani requested Mr. Turnipseed to obtain an opinion on the issue of expedite fees. She expressed her concern over the division being able to house 20 additional staff and recommended that an expedite team will enable the division to concentrate on the more urgent applications while another team can work on the backlog. Mr. Spitler declared his support for the additional 20 positions; however, stated unless the issue regarding the noticing requirement is resolved, he will not support this budget. Mr. Morros responded the department has requested an opinion from the attorney general as to what an appropriate minimum notice requirement would be. He indicated it is up to the Legislature to decide what constitutes proper notification. MR. MARVEL MOVED TO HOLD THE BUDGET. MR. SPITLER SECONDED THE MOTION. ASSEMBLY: THE MOTION CARRIED. (MR. ARBERRY AND MR. CLOSE WERE ABSENT FOR THE VOTE.) SENATE: THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. ***** Senator Jacobsen adjourned the subcommittee meeting at 10:00 a.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Cristin Buchanan, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Lawrence E. Jacobsen, Chairman DATE: Assemblyman Thomas W. Fettic, Chairman DATE: Assemblyman Larry L. Spitler, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Finance Assembly Committee on Ways and Means Joint Subcommittee on Pub. Safety/Nat'l Res./Trans. April 18, 1995