MINUTES OF THE JOINT SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING OF SENATE COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS Sixty-eighth Session March 31, 1995 The joint subcommittee meeting on Human Resources/K-12 of the Senate Committee on Finance and the Assembly Committee on Ways and Means was called to order by Chairman Raymond D. Rawson, at 8:15 a.m., on Friday, March 31, 1995, in Room 352 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. SENATE COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman Senator Bob Coffin ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Mr. Lynn Hettrick, Chairman Mrs. Jan Evans Ms. Sandra Tiffany Mr. Dennis L. Allard Mrs. Vonne Chowning Mr. Joseph E. Dini, Jr. SENATE COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT: Senator William J. Raggio (Excused) Senator Dean A. Rhoads STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Dan Miles, Fiscal Analyst Mark Stevens, Fiscal Analyst Jeanne Botts, Program Analyst Cristin Buchanan, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Barbara T. Clark, Lobbyist, Nevada Parent Teacher Association Kenneth B. Lange, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association Al Bellister, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association Don Hataway, Chief Assistant Budget Administrator, Department of Administration Mary Nebgen, Superintendent, Washoe County School District Brian Cram, Superintendent, Clark County School District Elaine Lancaster, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association Rick Millsap, President, Nevada State Education Association Mary L. Peterson, Superintendent of Public Instruction, State Department of Education Kevin Crowe, Director, Planning, Research and Evaluation, State Department of Education Dr. James Pollard, Ed.D., Principal Investigator, Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory Pat Johnson, Teacher, Washoe County School District Bob Dickens, Director, Government Relations, University of Nevada, Reno Dr. Keith Rheault, Deputy Superintendent for Instructional, Research and Evaluative Services, State Department of Education Betty Barker, Program Coordinator in Counseling, Washoe County School District Gail Palchikoff, Counselor, Roger Corbett Elementary School Sheila Leslie, Lobbyist, Children's Cabinet Inc., Action for Nevada's Children Alicia Smalley, Lobbyist, Nevada Association of Social Workers, Nevada Association of School Boards Senator Rawson opened the hearing on Department of Education matters and commented on his intention to form a study group to discuss the technical issues regarding the education budgets. Distributive School Account - Page 171 Class Size Reduction - Page 177 School Improvement - Page 181 Barbara T. Clark, Lobbyist, Nevada Parent Teacher Association, remarked the Nevada Parent Teacher Associations (PTAs) volunteer thousands of hours to the schools and donate millions of dollars and yet are constantly purchasing the basic necessities for schools that the Distributive School Account should be providing. According to Ms. Clark, the PTA at her school, Stead Elementary, provides many basic necessities, even on a limited budget, including everything from shampoo to books for the classrooms, whereas many school PTAs provide computers and software. She asserted there is a great need for additional funding. Ms. Clark distributed a copy of a PTA resolution (Exhibit C) for the committee's review. She emphasized that class size reduction will enable teachers to identify and correct children's weaknesses at an early stage of education, therefore setting a good foundation for children when they move on to larger classes in the higher grades. Mrs. Evans indicated during an Assembly Committee on Ways and Means subcommittee meeting on education, a number of parents communicated the need to focus class size reduction on grades kindergarten through second instead of first through third. She asked Ms. Clark which plan the PTA favors. Ms. Clark responded the PTA favors mandatory kindergarten with class size reduction, but also favors class size reduction in third grade, and passed resolutions on both plans. She stated, "Unfortunately, as an individual, I cannot say for 30,000 members, which they would like ... because it is a strong factor for both of them." She added the PTA made a resolution in support of early intervention. Senator Rawson surmised the PTA expressed a preference for an emphasis on kindergarten class size reduction over third grade class size reduction, which Ms. Clark confirmed. Kenneth B. Lange, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association, provided testimony in support of increased funding from the Distributive School Account, from prepared text (Exhibit D). He pointed out his organization represents over 16,500 education employees in the state. Mr. Lange pointed out education in new technology is costly, yet Nevada spending per pupil is considerably less than the national average, and the increases in salaries for Nevada's teachers has not grown by the amount of growth of increases in salaries in other states. He urged the committee to support higher funding for class size reduction and for teachers' salaries. Testifying in support of an increase in funding from the Distributive School Account, Al Bellister, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association, read from prepared text (Exhibit E). He expressed concern regarding the adequacy of the proposed budget in light of growth in the school population, the requirement for additional personnel, and funding for salary increases. Mr. Bellister indicated a desire to participate in Senator Rawson's proposed study group to ensure the budget is adequately funded. He reasserted the need to bring teachers' salaries in line with other occupations in the private sector, and the need to adjust spending to inflation in all educational budgets. Mrs. Evans addressed Mr. Bellister's concerns on the calculation of teacher salaries. She asked the Budget Division to explain how teacher salaries were computed in the past and to comment on the disparity in the second year. Don Hataway, Chief Assistant Budget Administrator, Department of Administration, responded the Budget Division is using a new set of definitions to construct the budget for the coming biennium. He conceded: But I do recognize that there is a technical issue that they raised ... concerning the 1995 portion of the new growth that's built into 1996. The issue becomes, then, what figure do you use to apply to those 1995 teachers? They are proposing that they automatically jump to the average salary level and that is not correct. According to Mr. Hataway, the impact may amount to $2 million if starting salaries are multiplied by 5 percent using two steps for training and for growth in grades. He continued: What salary do you use for new hires, do you use the minimum, or do you use the actual? In the typical executive agency, generally funded budget, unless there's some good reason why salaries above step one is used, we routinely use step one. If an agency hires at a higher rate, they have to address that themselves somewhere, either through vacancy savings, or transfers from other expenditure categories, or what have you. Mrs. Evans stated the definitions used in the calculations to build the budget for other state agencies cannot be properly applied when constructing the education budgets. Mr. Hataway agreed with Mrs. Evans' statement, and acknowledged the 1996 increment of teachers were actually hired in 1995, so by 1996 they will receive a salary increase. He reiterated they will not automatically jump to an average salary range. He said he used the starting salary with a 5 percent increase plus fringe benefit adjustments, which he calculated at $1,167,000 for the first year of the biennium. He stated the only impact in the second year is the additional 2 percent on top of the first raise. He agreed an incremental increase may need to be addressed, but not of the magnitude asserted by the Nevada State Education Association (NSEA). Mrs. Evans inquired as to how the Budget Division determined what expenses to allow for inflation. Mr. Hataway reflected in order to address other needs within the Executive Budget, the inflationary increases had to be reduced to five major categories: postage, heat, electricity, insurance and food. He stated, "The final budget was modified based upon the directives we got to only apply inflationary increases to those categories." Mrs. Evans replied, "I appreciate your perspective on that; however we are not talking apples to apples, because the schools are not operating the way many of our state agencies do." She asserted there is much concern regarding the lack of funding for textbooks which often are outdated or for which insufficient supplies are available to the schools. Mr. Hataway clarified funding for textbooks is increased in tandem with the increase in students in the Maintenance 200 (M-200) category. He acknowledged no inflationary increase is included for textbooks. He pointed out the Governor has recommended a one-time appropriation of $29 million to be distributed among local school districts to meet such needs. Mary Nebgen, Superintendent, Washoe County School District, spoke in support of class size reduction. She contended with smaller classes, teachers are better able to monitor behavior and learning, have opportunities for individualized re-teaching, enrichment, more frequent interactions with each child, more detailed knowledge of each child's needs and more time to meet those needs. Ms. Nebgen acknowledged the concern regarding provision for facilities as a result of class size reduction. She stated more than 66 percent of the teachers in Washoe County utilized team teaching when first and second grades were reduced in size. Today, she said, of 430 first and second grade classrooms, only 16 percent are using teams. She noted the schools have found space through rezoning and building new schools. In response to Mrs. Evans' question regarding smaller class sizes in kindergarten versus third grade classes, Ms. Nebgen stated the Washoe County School District board has taken a position in favor of both kindergarten and third grade class size reduction. She added, "If it comes right down to it ... kindergarten ... would be our first preference." She related the opinion that students should be given an excellent start through reduced class sizes in kindergarten for their first school experience in the hope there may not be as much of a need for additional help as they go up through the grades. Brian Cram, Superintendent, Clark County School District, indicated the Clark County School Board is on record as supporting class size reduction. He stated a class size reduction study (Exhibit F. Original is on file in Research Library.) shows that small, but significant, gains have been achieved through reductions that have already been implemented. Elaine Lancaster, Lobbyist, Nevada State Education Association, provided testimony in support of class size reduction while reading from her prepared text (Exhibit G), which echoed previous testimony from Mr. Lange. Senator Coffin asked if NSEA has read and commented on the class size reduction report (Exhibit F). Ms. Lancaster stated the association is in the process of compiling information. Rick Millsap, President, Nevada State Education Association, commented the class size reduction report does in fact show small, but significant, gains. Mr. Millsap declared an analysis on class size reduction was made several years ago which indicated there is a dramatic effect when classes have less than 20 students. He asserted: To be quite honest, this study that was done, in my opinion, is very poorly focused. Not because of lack of dedication ... but simply because there isn't a lot of funding for this report. It isn't controlled by a lot of different things that would show you the kind of things you need to know as legislators. My recommendation is yes, I think the report is significant. Mr. Millsap opined a study controlled for more socio-economic factors and background factors would result in more far reaching and dramatic results. Ms. Lancaster interjected: I think it is difficult to evaluate on a piece of paper ... self-esteem, self-responsibility and self-direction. I believe those are three things that employers are beginning to look more closely at, because they need people in the workforce who can get along, do their job, and have the respect for themselves that they need to. I think those are the things class size clearly identifies and are not testable. Mr. Millsap suggested class size reduction will contribute to improvements in discipline. Mary L. Peterson, Superintendent of Public Instruction, State Department of Education, asserted class size reduction has been the number one priority of the State Board of Education since its inception. She pointed out, by statute, the education department is required to report to the Legislature on the effectiveness of class size reduction, yet no funding has been appropriated to conduct a study. She affirmed the study conducted in 1993 was funded by local school districts. Senator Rawson requested an overview of the study (Exhibit F). He indicated he has received complaints as to the lack of proper funding to conduct a study and requested Ms. Peterson to address those complaints. Ms. Peterson indicated the Class Size Reduction Program requested funding for a complete evaluation which would measure elements beyond just achievement test scores. Senator Rawson recalled approximately $465,000 was requested for a study 4 or 5 years ago, and the most recent request was for $600,000. Ms. Peterson noted funding for the study is not included in the Executive Budget. Senator Rawson asked that a copy of the original program budget request be made available. Kevin Crowe, Director, Planning, Research and Evaluation, State Department of Education, provided an overview of the report. He said the format of the first study, made in 1993, is similar to the second report completed in 1995. He stated: Because we did not have resources to undertake this evaluation, we had to essentially make use of data that was currently available and also develop a design that would highlight the districts participating in the project. We found two interrelated, but separate, activities. One was a look at attitudes and opinions done through a sequence of surveys done by the rural districts. Mr. Crowe said the first section of Exhibit F is based upon information collected on standardized test scores and evaluated by the Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory through a competitive bidding process. Dr. James Pollard, Ed.D., Principal Investigator, Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory, summarized the results of questions upon which the study focused. He stated reducing class size does result in higher test scores, as indicated through a study of mathematics and reading test scores in second grade. Dr. Pollard asserted the term "class size" is a variable which cannot be properly defined. He explained: The most important problem with the study ... is that when we know what class size a student is in, it is only within categories, 10-15 students or 16-20 students. Therefore, a small classroom might be a classroom with 15 students. A student in a large classroom could be in a classroom with 16 students. We don't know the actual size of the classrooms. I think that is a very important variable. Reading from page 2 of the study regarding Washoe County and rural schools, Senator Rawson noted smaller classes were associated with higher mathematics scores in second grade classrooms in 1993, but in 1994 smaller second grade classes were associated with lower reading scores and there was no apparent change in mathematics scores. He stated, "That seems to run right in the face of what we are hearing. What you are saying ... as used here, a smaller second grade doesn't correlate to what we are thinking of ... as being a reduced classroom." Dr. Pollard admitted, "We don't know how it correlates. We just know that they are in a category that includes 15 or fewer students." Senator Rawson observed that is basic to the study and if that is unknown the study is frustrated. Dr. Pollard declared results were no different in classes utilizing team teaching than in self-contained classrooms with smaller numbers of students. He surmised whether a classroom is self- contained or whether team teaching is used is not an important variable. Senator Coffin commented the study does not allow for any conclusion to be made. He stressed: It was frustrating to me because it was hard to draw hard conclusions.... I am inclined to draw a conclusion based on your data ... that indicates to me that if we had not had [class size reduction], we would be in deep, deep trouble. I don't think we anticipated the growth ... in Clark County or Washoe County in language-deficient students and, just in general, at-risk students. It seems to have skewed the study. It looks to me that the impact of those young people, and their movement into the school district of these last 6 years, has been so heavy that had we not done something, we would have been in deep trouble. Senator Coffin averred the problem whether to fund third grade reduction is a political issue. He stated: Since I don't think the study demonstrates that there is enough data to suggest that we should expand to third grade ... my conclusion, though, is that there is more than enough demonstration to indicate that that money should be spent in the first and second grades on this program, exclusively. I'm not even sure we should try to put it into kindergarten. Senator Coffin expressed dissatisfaction with the language in the report which made some results difficult to understand. He asked if special education students draw down the study results. Dr. Pollard responded the special education students do not pull the results down into "multiple regression." He explained, "The multiple regression is a technique to equalize the affect of these low special [education] scores. If you take into account lower special [education] scores, how does class size affect special [education] kids?" Senator Coffin contended the multiple regression analysis helps raise special education children in the statistics. He stated, "That means it might be fine for them, but it does not help the rest of the mainstream students." Dr. Pollard stated the most important finding by the study is that third grade students who attended schools in Nevada and were in class size reduction classrooms scored far better than children who did not attend Nevada schools in the previous year. Ms. Peterson called attention to question 4 on page 23 of the report which confirms Dr. Pollard's statement. Senator Coffin called the data on page 5 "definitive," in that the increase in free or reduced-price lunches in some districts grew by 100 percent in the 5-year period since the program took effect, and that the number of students lacking proficiency in English has doubled. He drew attention to the figures on the bottom of the page showing the significant growth in poverty among the population. He noted Washoe County is now experiencing some of the problems which Clark County has faced for some time. Senator Coffin stressed that without the class size reduction program, Nevada's children would be behind other states. He declared his support for the program and invited the public to submit any opposition to the program to his office. Dr. Pollard resumed his review of the research questions and results with a look at question 5 on page 25. He noted there was no apparent difference in scores for third grade students who did not benefit from smaller class sizes. Senator Rawson inquired if any of the reduced classes in third grade included high-risk students. Dr. Pollard confirmed the query, and acknowledged some of the second grade classes may have been small because they have high-risk students. In response to the question as to whether students learned more in the year following class size reduction, Dr. Pollard responded the study shows that gains in mathematics scores were significant. Mrs. Evans questioned what the department plans for the future in terms of other studies which may address long-term benefits. Ms. Peterson asserted the department is desirous of conducting longitudinal studies should funds be appropriated for such studies. She declared, "It would be a real mistake to continue to make policy decisions based on a limited study such as this." Senator Rawson addressed the issue of school accountability and asked if an evaluation procedure has been created to allow the Legislature to enact legislation on the matter. He acknowledged to some people it is an issue of punishing those who fall down, where for others it is a matter of determining where resources should be placed. Ms. Peterson responded the department is working with the authors of the various school accountability bills to develop one revised accountability statute. Senator Rawson informed the department the committee intends to hold a hearing on the issue of school accountability within the next month. He requested those interested make plans for the hearing. Mr. Millsap interjected that NSEA is currently focusing on an additional component of school accountability. He explained the focus is not just on outcomes, but includes questions regarding whether all schools from elementary school through high school live up to national standards. He said accountability should take into consideration whether the proper books, programs and all the things necessary to provide a proper learning environment are available at the site. Senator Rawson asked for comments on School Improvement on page 181 in the budget. Ms. Nebgen offered support for the portion of the Governor's budget dealing with family resource centers. She introduced Pat Johnson, Teacher, Washoe County School District, who spends half her time as coordinator of the Sun Valley Family Resource Center, which opened in September 1994. Ms. Johnson said the center is funded through a grant and in cooperation with the Washoe County School District, and the center utilizes volunteers to staff the center. The goal of the family resource center is to ensure that children enter schools ready to learn. Ms. Johnson avowed children who are not hungry and who are healthy are able to learn better. She said Community Emergency Food Services provides food for approximately 200 people through distribution at the center once a week. She added the Washoe County Health Department provides services for women, infants and children at the center. Also parenting classes are offered, along with attention deficit disorder classes. She stated there is a literacy project in which volunteers from the resource center work with parents in their homes to teach them how to help their children, and tutoring for fifth and sixth graders is provided. She asserted the most important result of the program has been a renewed sense of pride within the community. According to Ms. Johnson, many people who receive help from the center return to give back items such as food to clothing. She said plans for the future include adult literacy classes, including English as a second language, tutoring during the summer, and work with pre-school parents to prepare their children for school. She stated, "Family resource centers are an opportunity for the networking of social services, the community and education." She declared it insures that children come to school ready to learn, and ultimately become productive members of society. Senator Rawson inquired if Ms. Johnson has noted any difference and if the goal of preparing children for learning is being met due to the presence of resource centers. Even though the program is relatively new, Ms. Johnson responded the children are healthier, and those involved in the literacy project have shown improvements in self-esteem. Senator Rawson asked what percentage of the children the facility helps are disadvantaged. Ms. Johnson replied approximately 60 percent of the children who attend the center are disadvantaged. Senator Rawson urged the division to build strong evidence as to the success of the program to enable future decisions to be made as to the funding of the project. He said, "It's at a critical time and you want to be sure that it is done right." Mrs. Evans recalled questions raised regarding the vagueness of the information that has been provided and that it lacks detail. She offered support for the concept of family resource centers, especially in at-risk neighborhoods. She questioned what the State Department of Education plans to do for future funding of the family resource centers since the funds are being provided on a one-time basis. She wondered if there will be an expectation of further funding from the state, or whether the districts will be able to absorb some of the funding for on-going operations. Ms. Nebgen stated the bill draft request (BDR) regarding family resource centers does not specify a particular amount of funding for any one center. She indicated that neighborhoods will be asked to develop a plan indicating their needs for a particular family resource center and that plan will then be submitted for approval to a local agency, such as the Children's Cabinet in Washoe County. She asserted that will allow some flexibility, because some centers will need more assistance than others. In response to Ms. Evans' question, Ms. Nebgen stated: It is my belief, and my vision, that these family resource centers should not need additional money. What they are is a coordination of services that are presently in existence and that each of those agencies that is providing services should be willing to participate in terms of either people, or equipment or dollars to be sure those services are available in neighborhood centers. I am going to perceive this as initial start-up money.... Mrs. Evans agreed a chief concern is long-term commitment. She expressed interest in Ms. Nebgen's comment that she does not anticipate that the program should need additional funding and it will be handled in a cooperative way in each district. Ms. Nebgen explained other communities have been able to succeed in that way, and if each agency involved in the family resource center contributes a small portion, it will not be a financial burden on any one particular agency. Ms. Tiffany questioned if the family resource centers can be funded through block grants rather than a General Fund appropriation. Ms. Nebgen responded according to her knowledge, no contingencies for additional funding for family resource centers exist in block grants. She stated she perceives there will be tremendous competition for resources coming from federal block grants, and there may not even be sufficient funding available for the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) special supplemental food program or for the school lunch program. Ms. Lancaster offered NSEA support for family resource centers and read from prepared text (Exhibit H). She distributed a manual entitled Creating a Family Resource Center, A Manual for Developing School-Linked Services prepared with the assistance of the K-16 Council Subcommittee on Family Resource Centers (Exhibit I. Original is on file at the Research Library.). Senator Rawson asked Mr. Hataway if the Budget Division will be changing the revenue projections of the program based on the new estimates for estate tax collections. Mr. Hataway responded the estate tax collections have exceeded expectations, but he is withholding making a recommendation until April 15, 1995, when the March 1995, estate tax figures will be available for review. He conjectured the carry over from 1995-1996 will need to be increased by $500,000 or $600,000. A report (Exhibit J) showing the estate tax collections through February 1995 was distributed to the committee and Mr. Hataway reviewed the contents therein. He noted the legislative projection was $6 million, while nearly $8 million in additional revenue has been collected in the year to date. As a consequence, he acknowledged his balance forward estimates for 1995-1996 were low, and the annual projections may be low. Mr. Hataway reported the new assessed valuations appear to jump by $1 billion statewide, a dramatic increase. Senator Rawson opened discussion on School Improvement budgets on page 181. Ms. Lancaster then read a statement offering NSEA support for continued funding for school counselors (Exhibit K). Bob Dickens, Director, Government Relations, University of Nevada, Reno, testified in support of funding for family resource centers. He identified himself as a member of the Washoe K-16 Council, which was formed through a university initiative as an outgrowth of the Nevada leadership forum, consisting of people from the private sector, from community colleges, and from the university. He declared the goals are to improve academic achievement by students and to provide social support services for at-risk students. Mr. Dickens stated the council has been active in its attempts to provide services to at-risk students, and he reiterated support for the family resource centers. Senator Rawson noted the budget is being doubled from $1 million to $2 million. Mr. Hataway responded there will be 26 support staff persons in the M-200 category, and the E-250 category will double that number, which will provide one counselor for something less than each 1,200 students. Ms. Tiffany inquired if the education department is requesting counselors to target certain grade levels. She also questioned whether there are any programs for children and families who are identified as having problems and whether there are measurement indicators to show the success of the school counseling program to date. Ms. Peterson responded the requested counselors will serve kindergarten through sixth grade students. She indicated programs for children with problems vary depending on where the child attends school. The program has no measurement indicators since all funds contained in the budget are transferred to all the school districts, she affirmed. Ms. Tiffany announced her support for school counselors is wavering. She stated, "The family is the problem.... Schools should not be in the middle of that, in my opinion." She also voiced disapproval of the lack of indicators. Ms. Peterson concurred the family resource centers will provide the proper tool to deal with family problems. Dr. Keith Rheault, Deputy Superintendent for Instructional, Research and Evaluative Services, State Department of Education, stated the target for family counselors is at-risk students. Senator Rawson requested Ms. Peterson to develop performance indicators for the school counselor program. Betty Barker, Program Coordinator in Counseling, Washoe County School District, distributed a report (Exhibit L) briefly describing the results of the six counseling positions utilized by the Washoe County School District. She recognized it is difficult to explain the duties of elementary school counselors, which she set forth in the exhibit and on which she elaborated. Ms. Barker stated counselors who work full time get to know the children and their families, and act as liaison with the resource centers. Much time is used helping children learn to solve their own problems at an early age, she said, and the counselors work with all children on prevention and intervention bases. She indicated much time is spent identifying problems with children at- risk and planning interventions. Mr. Allard asked for a definition of an at-risk child. Gail Palchikoff, Counselor, Roger Corbett Elementary School, identified an at-risk student as a student whose education is impeded adversely by cultural, environmental, societal, and family factors. As a counselor, Ms. Palchikoff said her goal is to work with at- risk students, their families, and their teachers with a team approach. She acknowledged her school is in an area faced with problems with gangs and drugs, and many of the elementary school children have older siblings who are members of gangs in the position of role models. She stated the children imitate the behavior of their siblings, and she attempts to intervene by educating the staff to recognize the indications, by working with the parents and by keeping communications open with the youngsters. She often uses "mentors" from the community from Native American or Afro-American backgrounds and she attempts to show alternatives to gangs. Ms. Palchikoff noted many families are involved in substance abuse, and many children have experimented with drugs or alcohol. Since many children have no supervision at home, she provides weekly studies with the parents, even as far as going to the student's home. In addition, she offers classroom education on substance abuse. Ms. Palchikoff acknowledged there are racial issues and there is a large turnover of transients in her area, several from shelters, some who are homeless, for which she provides counseling. She asserted problems have decreased due to the refusal by the school to tolerate inappropriate behavior such as racial fights and because she provides an on-going program for conflict mediation. Senator Rawson inquired if elementary school counselors come from the teaching staff or from other professions such as social work. Ms. Palchikoff responded that a majority of counselors are educators prior to becoming counselors. Mr. Allard asked how receptive the parents are to the counselors. Ms. Palchikoff replied, "Very." She acknowledged occasionally parents may get angry at the counselors' involvement; however, she stated usually parents are extremely receptive to the counselors, want to help, and often realize they need help. Mr. Allard asked if the counselors encourage the children to discuss problems with their parents. Ms. Palchikoff answered in the affirmative. She said she tries to identify for the students who can best help them. Ms. Barker interjected that is one reason for the focus on parental involvement, as noted on Exhibit L. Mr. Allard pointed out without performance indicators to show justification as to the necessity of additional counselors, he is not able to verify the effectiveness of the school counseling program. Ms. Palchikoff stated, "It's a question of where you put the money. If you put it when they're young, and you can make a difference, versus way after the fact." Regarding those parents who work two jobs, Mr. Allard commented: We constantly raise taxes and spend more money for programs which means that the parents of these kids have to work harder to meet those obligations, those tax bills, which further removes them from rearing their own children. That's what I am worried about. Ms. Palchikoff pointed out the problems are often attributable to the fact both parents work. Ms. Tiffany questioned what is the best age to begin identifying and treating troubled children and whether it is nearly too late by the sixth grade. Ms. Palchikoff explained, "I can only tell from my experience, a child develops differently at each age and each child develops differently, so it is really hard to identify an exact age for each individual child. My feeling is that the younger the better...." She stated the Head Start program shows it is important to educate and involve the parent to lay a good foundation. Ms. Tiffany asked if the additional counselors requested are for at-risk students. Dr. Rheault responded the intention of the request is to provide services to at-risk students. Stating her philosophical goal of keeping government out of the family, Ms. Tiffany queried whether most of the children receiving counseling at school are already involved with the government through welfare or other social services. Ms. Barker indicated the department does not keep any data on that issue, and the focus is on identifying children with difficulties in learning. Ms. Palchikoff interjected students receiving counseling are from both welfare families and self-supporting families. Ms. Tiffany said the committee has provided two ideas for performance indicators. Ms. Barker commented the school district perceives gathering data on families of children is intrusive; however, she promised her cooperation to gather such data for the committee. Ms. Tiffany stated it may be helpful to know if the intervention occurs primarily in first grade or sixth grade, and what the root is of the problem. She stressed the importance of knowing the background of the children and the reasons behind their problems. Senator Rawson suggested some of the factors discussed be included when students are assessed. He declared successful programs should be captured. Ms. Peterson agreed to do so. Ms. Palchikoff interjected she does keep statistics on the grade level of each child, the topic, and how many times she sees the child. Mrs. Evans declared her support for the elementary school counselor program and said it should be given more emphasis. She referred to Exhibit L and questioned the causes behind the large increase in depression and suicide counseling. Ms. Barker reflected societal factors, such as drive-by shootings, gangs and substance abuse, which are widely discussed in the news media and which often happen to friends, are having the greatest influence on the children. Mrs. Evans agreed there is a high incidence of teen suicide in Nevada, and voiced her dismay that it affects so many elementary children. Mr. Allard inquired how important is parental involvement. Ms. Palchikoff replied parental involvement is the number one intervention method she utilizes. Mr. Allard reflected: The problem that I have with dumping more money into governmental programs when family is involved is that the more we do that ... the harder they have to work and the less they can become involved because most parents are working.... That's where the money comes from ... out of their pockets. Mr. Allard noted the parents are tired when they get home and have less time to interact with their children, yet the number one thing that needs to happen is the parents need to get involved. He stated: It's a vicious cycle that keeps going down .... Somewhere we've got to break that cycle and get the parents more involved in rearing their own children rather than government taking on that responsibility for them. Mr. Dini declared that he is impressed with the program's results since its inception in 1991. Ms. Barker responded parents, teachers, counselors and administrators take a team approach and construct an intervention program for each at-risk child. Thereafter, she said, the team tracks what interventions have been tried, who is responsible, and the success of the intervention. She explained intervention may be in the classroom, with the family, recreational, parenting or group counseling. Mr. Dini pointed out the same problems occur in the small towns as in the large cities. Mr. Rheault assured the committee he will work with his staff to develop measurement indicators based on the information the committee has requested. Senator Rawson suggested the education department also include learning outcomes correlating to counseling services, as a measurement indicator. Ms. Tiffany asked at what age the children begin to have confrontations with the law. Ms. Palchikoff replied some children have problems as young as age 8. Ms. Tiffany requested measurement indicators showing at what age children first enter the criminal justice system be included. Ms. Peterson asserted schools are a reflection of society, and the services being provided should be reexamined to determine how the needs of children and families can be more effectively met. Reading from Exhibit M, she extolled the benefits of family resource centers, and urged funding for them. She distributed a copy of a report from the United States General Accounting Office (Exhibit N. Original is on file in the Research Library.) to the committee for their review. Sheila Leslie, Lobbyist, Children's Cabinet Inc., Action for Nevada's Children, advocated in support of family resource centers and distributed a copy of an article (Exhibit O) on the Sun Valley Family Resource Center. She noted the article personalizes the services offered. She invited the committee to tour the resource centers and meet some of the families. She added there is wide- spread support for the centers throughout the state, and she offered to bring representatives from Clark County, Elko and elsewhere to testify in favor of the concept. Regarding payment of taxes discussed by Mr. Allard, Ms. Leslie pointed out for many children school counselors are the only people who can assist them in obtaining help. She suggested many families have substance abuse, many are not on public assistance which should be, or they may be on public assistance and in need of help to become self-sufficient. She asserted if the problem can be solved through the family resource centers, juvenile delinquency and dependence on welfare will be reduced, resulting in savings over the long run. Alicia Smalley, Lobbyist, Nevada Association of Social Workers, Nevada Association of School Boards, commented on the necessity for school counselors. She reminded the committee that the Governor cut back on mental health budgets, and now only very severe cases are handled by mental health services. She said no other form of prevention takes place in her community, which means if the school counselor is not active in prevention, it is not getting done. Ms. Smalley pointed out there are no social workers dealing with the families in the welfare programs. She asserted the more children interact with adults, the better off they are. She stated the school counselors fill in the gaps to connect people to services. Senator Rawson inquired if doubling the number of counselors and funding will be enough to make an impact on the children. Ms. Smalley replied, "It all helps. It is all a piece of what needs to be done. Yes." Ms. Peterson interjected the department had requested 116 additional elementary school counselors in the original budget request, thereby staffing each at-risk elementary school with one counselor. She pointed out the Governor only recommended 50 counselors, for which she expressed gratitude, but asserted it does not fully address the needs. Ms. Clark spoke on behalf of the Nevada PTA in support of funding for the additional elementary school counselors. She alleged the population of Nevada is dramatically different from that in most other states because transiency is above 50 percent at many schools. She declared most families are more concerned with payment of rent and food bills than of taxes, since many have low- income jobs. According to Ms. Clark, the problems facing children today follow them into the classroom where they disrupt the learning environment and impact the ability of the teacher to teach. Counselors are trained and better able to deal with such life problems and allow the teachers the ability to direct more time to teaching, she stated. Urging support for funding for school counselors, Ms. Clark distributed a resolution (Exhibit P) from the PTA. Mr. Cram reported statistics from 1991 and 1992 regarding Nevada's children in order to point out the necessity for school counselors. He stated: Nevada ranked 50th in teen suicide, 50th in juvenile incarceration, 50th in alcohol consumption for all age groups, 49th in hard core cocaine addicts and wine consumption, 49th ... in teen pregnancy, 47th in the number of children living outside their home, 46th in teen violent deaths, 41st in child death rate, 40th in health insurance for children, and 36th in single parent homes. In Clark County, we are currently getting 400 students a month who speak no English. Our Hispanic population, which is a terrible dropout rate for us that we're trying to deal with, is growing at 5 times the rate of any other population group. Mr. Cram said the school population is growing by 11,000 students per year, and 16 to 20 percent of the students have been in the school district for just 1 year. He declared, "Many of our children are raised in a war zone. They need all the help they can get." Senator Rawson requested a copy of the statistics referenced by Mr. Cram. Sheila Ward, Chairman, Nevada Christian Coalition, submitted Exhibit Q subsequent to the meeting. Senator Rawson adjourned the subcommittee meeting at 10:30 a.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Judy Jacobs, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Raymond D. Rawson, Chairman DATE: Assemblyman Lynn Hettrick, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Finance Assembly Committee on Ways and Means Joint Subcommittee on Human Resources/K-12 March 31, 1995