MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR Sixty-eighth Session June 20, 1995 The Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor was called to order by Chairman Randolph J. Townsend, at 4:00 p.m., on Tuesday, June 20, 1995, in Room 227 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman Senator Ann O'Connell, Vice Chairman Senator Sue Lowden Senator Kathy M. Augustine Senator John B. (Jack) Regan COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT: Senator Raymond C. Shaffer (Excused) Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr. (Excused) STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Scott Young, Senior Research Analyst Beverly Willis, Committee Secretary Molly Dondero, Committee Secretary OTHERS PRESENT: Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Electrical Power Consumers Frederick Schmidt, Consumer Advocate, Office of the Advocate for Customers of Public Utilities, Office of the Attorney General Cynthia K. Gilliam, Vice President, Retail Customer Operations, Nevada Power Company Galen Denio, Commissioner, Public Service Commission of Nevada Douglas R. Ponn, Director Governmental Affairs, Sierra Pacific Power Company Robert Barengo, Lobbyist, Nevada Electric Power Consumers Bob Campbell, Lobbyist, Nevada Geo-Thermal Council Dr. J. Holmes Armstead, Associate Director for Plans, Policy and Program Development, Great Basin Policy Center, University of Nevada-Reno (UNR) Robert P. Morin, Research Associate, Great Basin Policy Research Institute Ronald L. Warren, Coordinator, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada LuAnn Nissen, Interior Design Program Coordinator, Associate Professor, University of Nevada, Reno Derrell Parker, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada Nicole F. Norris, ASID, Interior Designer, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas Nancy Wolf-Pare`, Interior Designer, President, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas Mike Hillerby, Lobbyist, American Institute of Architecture- Nevada (AIA) Jim Wadhams, Lobbyist, Nevada State Board of Architecture Doreen Mack, Interior Designer Paula Kaley, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada Dr. Donald Myers, Academic Vice President, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas Brian Gresh, Lobbyist, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada Trisha Lincoln, Interior Designer Karen Abowd, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada Bruce Goff, President, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada The hearing was opened as a subcommittee hearing because several members were in other hearings and will continue as a hearing when a quorum is present. A discussion was held on Senate Concurrent Resolution (S.C.R) 57. SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 57: Directs Legislative Commission to conduct interim study of effects of competition in generation and sale of electric energy. Senator Townsend read Exhibit C which is a bill draft request (BDR). He explained the Assembly has a resolution drafted and it will be discussed during the hearing. He stated the Senate Committee on Legislative Affairs and Operations and the Assembly Committee on Elections amd Procedures will be hearing the BDR. He stated the hearing, tonight, will be on the language for a bill, but there is no determination at this time as to whether it will be a Senate bill or an Assembly bill. He stated Assemblywoman Deanna Braunlin and Assemblyman Roy Neighbors along with Senator Mike McGinness have stated they are in agreement with the concept of this bill. Senator McGinness has indicated he will work with the Assembly on the language of the bill. Senator Townsend discussed Exhibit D which he requested for the committee's information. Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Electrical Power Consumers, discussed Exhibit C and S.C.R. 57. He stated the issue of retail wheeling has been treated in a positive fashion in the resolution. He stated he does not have any technical changes to offer at this time. Frederick Schmidt, Consumer Advocate, Office of the Advocate for Customers of Public Utilities, Office of the Attorney General, discussed Exhibit C and S.C.R. 57. He stated his support of the resolution and indicated the resolution is a step toward studying the necessary concerns about retail wheeling. He suggested a study include discussion of competition. He stated understanding competition and how it affects the marketplace is the heart of the issue. He stated competition is supposed to offer additional choices for customers and is intended to drive costs down. He referred to S.C.R 57, page 2, subsection 5 and asked that additional language be added. He suggested, after line 7, a subcategory be added which refers to the choices and prices which all customers will have for electricity. Senator Regan suggested the committee will be looking at a macro analysis of the report, not a microanalysis. Mr. Schmidt agreed. He stated a microanalysis would take a lifetime to understand. Cynthia K. Gilliam, Vice President, Retail Customer Operations, Nevada Power Company, expressed her support for the study. She stated she agrees with the recommended change suggested by Mr. Schmidt. She stated the issue is one which affects all customers. Senator Townsend stated it has been expressed to him there is concern that the Legislature may be involved in setting or establishing rates under this legislation. He stated that is not the intention of the Legislature. Galen Denio, Commissioner, Public Service Commission of Nevada, commented the commission will be happy to supply information requested by the Legislature which will help in the study. Douglas R. Ponn, Director Governmental Affairs, Sierra Pacific Power Company, indicated the BDR contains a listing of significant issues which the committee should study. He stated he agrees with the approach of using an interim committee to conduct the study. He suggested the format of the BDR be considered when outlining the issues. He stated he pledges Sierra Pacific Power Company as a resource for the study. He stated he supports the key words in S.C.R. 57 along with the list in the BDR. Robert Barengo, Lobbyist, Nevada Electric Power Consumers, explained S.C.R 57 is a broad summary of the issues. Mr. Denio commented the committee needs to consider cooperatives and associations. He stated they are affected by many of the decisions which will be made by the committee during the study. Ms. Gilliam cautioned it is important not to limit the scope of the study. She referred to line 21 of S.C.R. 57 and asked for the removal of "shall." Bob Campbell, Lobbyist, Nevada Geo-Thermal Council, expressed his support for the study. Dr. J. Holmes Armstead, Associate Director for Plans, Policy and Program Development, Great Basin Policy Center, University of Nevada-Reno (UNR) presented Exhibit D which he read to the committee. Dr. Armstead discussed the recommendations of his study. He stated it is important to consider the sister- states' relations. He commented the reasons for recommendation 2 are twofold. There is the issue of the costs to the consumer and the generation rates of new generation plants. There is a rate differentiation between southern and northern Nevada. He commented there is no north-south major transmission line grid system in Nevada. He explained in order to transmit from northern Nevada to southern Nevada, electricity must be transmitted through either California or Utah. He stated that will increase the cost to the consumer. He explained that stranded investment will probably have no impact in southern Nevada. He commented he will be able to serve in an advisory capacity during the Legislative study. Senator Townsend directed Dr. Armstead to draft a proposal and to send it to the committee, the Legislative Commission, and the chairman of each money committee with a cover letter which will explain he has asked Dr. Armstead to submit this information and to include Exhibit D. Dr. Armstead stated he would do as asked. Robert P. Morin, Research Associate, Great Basin Policy Research Institute, commented his institute has the ability to offer its services to the committee at a reasonable price because the institute is housed within the university system. He stated they do not have the same overhead costs as one might encounter with an outside consulting agency. The hearing was closed on S.C.R. 57 and was opened on Senate Bill (S.B.) 506. SENATE BILL 506: Provides for registration and regulation of registered interior designers and registered residential interior desgners. S.B. 506 was voted out of committee on June 1, 1995 and during that time many questions have arisen concerning Amendment No. 766 which replaced the original language in the bill at the time of the first hearing. Senator Townsend explained it is fair to the committee that they should all hear the concerns expressed by various people in regard to the bill. Senator Regan has requested another amendment to the bill. There was a discussion as how the conflict between the three proposed amendments will be handled on the Senate floor. Ronald L. Warren, Coordinator, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada, explained he has discussed the amendment in the earlier hearing with the committee and explained the finished amendment is "in essence" the same as the bill which was presented 20 days before. He stated there are a few changes in the amendment, which were requested by the Legislative Counsel Bureau, having to do with bill drafting format. He stated the bill details the definition of interior design and sets the definition as the scope of work for registered interior designers in Nevada. He stated the bill requires all persons engaging in interior design to become registered and establishes the qualifications for registration. He stated the bill contains exemptions as they apply to the retail industry and those engaged in interior design projects which are not subject to uniform building or construction codes. Senator Lowden questioned the educational language in the amendment under section 8. She pointed out someone may take only a few courses a year for 5 years, but not have the credits for a degree. She pointed out that it is usual to define the number of credit hours accumulated in a degree, not the number of years. Mr. Warren stated they adopted the language from existing language in chapter 623 of Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS). He stated there is similar language in chapter 625 of NRS. He stated the intent is to require a full course load and a degree to qualify for registration. He stated everyone who takes the exam to become a registered interior designer must take the exam from the National Council for Interior Design Qualification (NCIDQ). He stated the NCIDQ will not allow anyone to take the exam who does not have a degree. He stated the coalition is adopting the standards of the NCIDQ. Senator Regan asked what degree is required under the NCIDQ standards. Mr. Warren stated the NCIDQ currently and until January 1, 1998, allows 2 years experience with 4 years education, 3 years experience with 3 years education, up to the combined total of 6 years. He stated until January 1, 1998, it will allow a person who does not have any formal education, but who has 6 continuous years of experience to take the NCIDQ exam. He stated anyone with 6 years of continuous experience or education, any combination thereof, may take the test. He stated he believes Amendment No. 766 does not decrease the scope of practice for those people who are, currently, interior designers. He stated it does not enlarge the scope of practice. He stated the passage of S.B. 506 will open the field for interior designers to work in rated structures. He commented it takes a little of the current definition of architecture and allows interior designers to work under those definitions. He stated Judge Nancy Becker of Clark County has made a ruling that interior designers may not work in the architects' definition of practice without being registered. He stated Judge Becker stated without legislative approval interior designers may not work in areas where code compliance is necessary. He stated she said, "You cannot . . . specify finishes, materials, or similar items in rated structures, which include hotels, any type of group housing . . . does not affect some small offices or some construction." Senator Townsend commented there has been much discussion on the removal of the term "interior designer" from the public domain. Mr. Warren commented this is one of the most controversial parts of the bill. He stated there has been great debate regarding the removal of the term "interior designer" within the interior design community. He stated he thinks it is important to make a distinction for the public's good between unlicensed and licensed people. He stated he recognizes there are interior designers who have no interest in doing work in rated structures, but who wish to call themselves interior designers. He stated he feels it is for the good of the public to make the distinction between licensed and unlicensed interior designers. Mr. Warren commented that neither the University of Nevada, Reno, nor the University of Nevada, Las Vegas are accredited by the Foundation for Interior Design Education Research (FIDER). He explained FIDER accreditation is very expensive to achieve. He explained graduation from a FIDER-accredited university is a requirement for licensure. He stated the term "or approved by the board" in the amendment will cover the university system in Nevada. LuAnn Nissen, Interior Design Program Coordinator, Associate Professor, University of Nevada, Reno, presented Exhibit F. She requested a change in the language on page 5 and page 25 of Exhibit E to make the language parallel to language in NRS 623.190. She requested the more specific language which will place acceptance of a degree from the university system in statute rather than leaving it up to the discretion of the board. Senator Townsend asked if either the coalition or Senator Regan has seen Exhibit F. Mr. Warren commented he understands Ms. Nissen's request and has no problem with the proposed language, but he does not feel the American Institute of Architecture- Nevada (AIA) or the State Board of Architecture have seen the amendment requested. Senator Augustine discussed pages 4 and 5 of Exhibit E. She asked if the problem with the language is with the requirement for the NCIDQ test. Mr. Warren stated until 1998 the test is enough, then there is a change in the requirements requiring the degree in interior design. Mr. Warren stated there are 55 out of 350 interior designers in Nevada who have passed the NCIDQ exam. He explained it is a very difficult exam. He stated the current pass rate on the NCIDQ is 23 percent and is given twice a year in Las Vegas and Sacramento. Senator Augustine clarified Exhibit F asks for the community college system to be added to the list of schools to allow students to attend both community and university schools in Nevada. She stated graduation from the community college will allow an interior designer to work to a limited extent within the field. Derrell Parker, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada, stated the University of Nevada, Las Vegas has a graduate program. Nicole F. Norris, ASID, Interior Designer, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas, commented she is NCIDQ-certified and is a graduate of a 4-year degree program at Florida State University which is FIDER-accredited. She stated she is director of education at the Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas which is a private school and nationally accredited. Ms. Norris asked where in the bill it states a person may not have a 2-year degree. Mr. Warren commented the information is on page 25 between the bracketed subsections 3, 4, and 5 to eliminate the 2-year educational requirement. Ms. Norris clarified the NCIDQ will accept a 2-year associate degree program after 1998 as well as the 4-year degree programs. Senator Augustine commented the language will not prevent someone from taking the exam if they have a 2-year degree. She suggested adding the language that a graduate degree with no experience will allow someone to take the test and be registered in Nevada. Mr. Warren stated he is not certain the NCIDQ recognizes graduate degrees with no experience. He stated some practical experience is necessary for successful passage of the NCIDQ. Mr. Parker pointed out someone may be able to take the NCIDQ test with only a 2-year degree and 4 years of experience, but they may not be certified in Nevada. Nancy Wolf-Pare`, Interior Designer, President, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas, asked why someone who is nationally certified cannot be certified in Nevada. She commented she finds that unusual that Nevada would not recognize a person, who has passed the NCIDQ, would not allow them to use the term "interior designer," and would fine them for doing so. She expressed her concern over this requirement stressing her school will be put out of business if this bill passes with this language. Mr. Warren discussed page 14, section 23, subsection 3. He stated, "It is more than just the NCIDQ which is required here to become a registered interior designer." Ms. Norris commented the Interior Design Institute has no problem with the second test being required by the board for registration. She stated if the institute's students are capable of passing the exam, then they should be allowed to be registered as interior designers. Senator Townsend clarified the provision in section 23, subsection 3, is a separate test which will be crafted by the architects, interior designers and residential interior designers. He commented she is objecting to section 35 because of the changes it makes in section 8 of the amendment. Ms. Norris agreed. Senator Townsend commented that Mr. Warren has indicated the bill is drafted in its current language so as to meet NCIDQ changes which will be established in 1998. Mr. Warren stated that is correct, except in 1998 NCIDQ will not permit a person who does not have a formal education of at least 2 years to apply for the national exam. He stated they are eliminating the 6-year practical experience requirement. Senator Townsend clarified the NCIDQ change in 1998 is only for the 6-year requirement and will allow a person with a 2-year degree plus experience to take the NCIDQ exam. Ms. Norris stated the institute's educational program will meet the NCIDQ standard. Ms. Nissen commented any 4-year program from the university and community college system in Nevada should qualify a person to take the exam. Ms. Nissen stated she agrees with the regulation for a 4-year program. She commented people with a 2- year degree may take the NCIDQ exam, then go on to a 4-year program if they wish and then they may be licensed to work in Nevada. She commented the legislation does not prevent any other school in the state from seeking board approval. Mr. Warren stated the NCIDQ is the national certifying organization for professional interior designers. He stated there are two types of legislation in the United States which affects interior designers. He stated: The first type is called a `title act.' California has a hybrid title act. Many states have started with a title act for interior designers. It basically says, `You pass the exam, you pay your fee, you get to use the title of certified or registered interior designer. The scope of your practice is only that which other non-titled persons can perform.` That is the original basis on which many interior design statutes were passed . . . [the second type is a] practice act which is a defined scope of practice for what registered or certified interior designers may do. This defined scope of practice went beyond what all other persons who were interior designers could do. He commented there are two states and one territory which require practice acts. They all require 4- and 5-year degrees. He stated a higher educational requirement is deemed appropriate for the professional in the non-life-safety area. Senator Townsend asked if the requirement for a 4-year degree is a requirement of the architects. Mike Hillerby, Lobbyist, American Institute of Architecture- Nevada (AIA), stated the educational requirement is the core of the issue. He stated this regulation expands the scope of work an interior designer will be allowed to do. He stated not everyone is qualified to do the expanded work defined under this legislation. He stated it was determined there had to be a way to set aside the group of people who wish to do this expanded work. He stated life-safety issues, partitioning of space, and writing contract documents is defined in the first sections of the amendment. He stated the expanded education came out of the Construction Industry Relation Council meetings with the interior designers represented by the Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers (LCIDN). Jim Wadhams, Lobbyist, Nevada State Board of Architecture, stated: A broad-based coalition was formed consisting of landscape architects, the State Board of Architecture, professional engineers, the State Contractors' Board, plus the various associations of regulated people within those boards and the interior designers as represented by the LCIDN. This bill will allow people to do things that encroach, otherwise, in the life- safety area that we, heretofore, have required engineers, contractors, or architects to do. The key is to find the proper balance of education, not just testing, [for] testing examines only that portion of your knowledge that the test represents. It is not comprehensive. That is why in all professions we have an educational component in addition to the testing component. Although I think there are some alternatives to address this problem of disenfranchisement of names, I do think it is important for the committee to keep in mind that there are different levels which are appropriate for education for people who want to expand and do more technical or life-safety issues. Senator Townsend asked if it is a requirement to have a college degree to become an architect. Mr. Wadhams stated a 4- or 5- year degree is required. Senator Townsend commented that the board, under this legislation, has the capability for creating an exam which may be so difficult to pass, even though they meet the requirements in the bill, few people may be able to pass the test. Mr. Wadhams stated it is important to remember there is a grandfathering period allowed in this bill. He stated it is possible the board could craft an extremely difficult test, however, he pointed out the board will consist of architects and interior designers, and residential interior designers and a public member. He commented he knows the committee will hear if people feel there are problems with the test. Senator Townsend pointed out the board will be dominated by the architects and the public member. He stated the life-safety issue for the public becomes paramount. He commented it seems to the committee that the credibility of the test will hinge on the strength of the exam. He commented the life-safety issue must be dealt with carefully to protect the public and to assure the public that the test is comprehensive enough to fulfill its intent. Mr. Wadhams explained the life-safety issue is a critical area. He stated it is not the intent of the legislation to deprive anyone the use of a name and suggested an amendment can be proposed to dispense with this issue. He suggested "certified" might be used for those who pass the national exam, and "registered" for those who pass the board exam. Ms. Norris commented the grandfather clause gives 3 years for people with a 2-year education, however, she pointed out, many of those people will not have adequate time to meet the 4-year experience requirement. She pointed out that section 4 of the amendment pertains to the scope of work and that the institute is training its students in all points discussed in section 4 of the amendment. She stated some of the graduates of the institute are doing limited work in rated structures and they will be unable to continue to work and they will be unable to have the chance to take the test so that they may continue to work. Senator Regan read NRS 623.190 which lists the qualifications for applicants to take the architects' exam. He read NRS 623.A150, NRS 625.180, and NRS 625.280. He stated that three out of four of the boards allow experience. He pointed out architects are the only ones who do not. He commented: You are building a wall around yourselves which does not exist in other professions . . . First you say the NCIDQ is fine, great qualification, but you say, oh no, we do not want that, because in 3 years we are changing it. Are you just building this ladder and pulling up the people who are here, now? You are excluding people, who, in my opinion, who are in 2- year programs . . . from public policy . . . I find it very difficult in my heart, to cut off the programs of the people who are now in the programs and will not have the time to qualify by 1998. Exhibit G was submitted to the committee. Doreen Mack, Interior Designer, read Exhibit H. Ms. Mack commented she resents S.B. 506 because it eliminates people from working in their profession. She stated most interior designers create a beautiful home for people to live in. She commented they are artists. She stated she has no desire to do architectural, structural work. She pointed out that those designers, who wish to do that work, should be NCIDQ-certified, but not all designers wish to take the responsibility for life- safety issues. She stated a contractor will hire a designer who has the certificate if rated work is what the contractor is looking for. Exhibit I was submitted for the record. Senator Augustine pointed out that Ms. Mack may take the test based on her experience. Ms. Mack commented she does not want to do life-safety work and does not wish to take the test to be certified to do so. She stated she heard about this bill 1 week ago. She contacted a few people, and since that time she has heard from 131 people who have expressed their opposition to this bill. She stated most people who will be affected by this bill have never been contacted about its contents. Senator Townsend asked if Ms. Mack will be able to continue working if this legislation passes. Mr. Warren stated she may continue to do interior decorating, but her partner who works in hospitals, may not continue to work. Paula Kaley, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada, stated: It is precisely this issue that I find extremely important in considering this bill, because, currently, we are able to allow people to practice as interior designers affecting the life-safety of the public in hospitals, hotels, all public spaces without any qualification. It is the intent of this bill to set requirements for that type of practice. Senator Regan asked if an interior designer doing work in a commercial setting is carrying liability insurance. Mr. Warren stated no one is. Senator Regan stated he does not think there is a contractor in this state who is "that stupid." Ms. Kaley stated errors and omissions insurance cannot be obtained because there is no certification for interior designers in the state. Senator Regan commented the architect is putting his license on the line. Mr. Warren stated architects and contractors use the services of interior designers without errors and omissions coverage, and without any liability coverage. He stated the designer is on the job by contractors' exemption. He commented the contractor may have a designer draw a set of plans, then use those plans as the contractor. He referred to the earlier court case which stated this cannot be allowed. Senator Regan pointed out the court case stated an interior designer may not sign his own plans and submit the plans. Mr. Warren commented he understands there are many people who are interior designers who do not wish to take the exam. He commented they intentionally restrict the scope of their practice. He stated: We have no intent to harm those individuals. I'm quite certain we can craft some amendment which would leave them the ability to continue calling themselves interior designers. For those who wish to take the NCIDQ exam and become certified, that is a private organization, [the] same [as] with the American Society of Interior Designers (ASID) and International Interior Design Association (IIDA). If they become professional members of those [organizations], they can still use those [titles] in connection with their interior design name. We have no problem working on an amendment for that. But for those people who do the life-safety work, who desire to go beyond, then we must concur that more education is required. More testing is required for those people to go into these areas. Senator Regan commented that is what he has been waiting to hear for the past 2 weeks and directed Mr. Warren to craft the amendments. Senator Augustine commented she thought that was understood from the beginning. She stated those who wish to call themselves decorators can do so. She stressed S.B. 506 does not apply to these people. Mr. Warren stated that is correct. The coalition has attempted to achieve a compromise in this matter. He commented it has been suggested to place the words "Interior Designer" and "Interior Design" back into the public domain. He stated the term "registered" will make the distinction. He stated it was never intended to prohibit, restrict or limit in any way, the ability of those who do not take the test to call themselves "interior designers" or to use "ASID" or "IIDA" with their title. He commented it is very important that the people with the 2-year degree have some period of transition. Ms. Norris commented the problem is not just putting the term "interior design" back into the public domain, it is that the Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas is training people to deal with life-safety issues, but their degree will not qualify them to work in Nevada after 1998 even though they qualify under the NCIDQ requirements. Senator Townsend discussed section 35 of Exhibit E. Ms. Wolf-Pare` commented she works specifically on job placement for her students. She pointed out that universities and community colleges do not offer this service. She stated she has spoken to architects and other employers of designers, and she has been told if 4 years is the law, they will not hire her students. She stated that will affect her job placement program, and that will close her school. Mr. Warren stated section 35 is the consensus of the State Board of Engineers, Professional Engineers Society, and the AIA. Ms. Nissen commented she wanted the state-funded university system to be recognized in the bill and she does not feel it is right for a state board to be allowed to dictate programs to the university system. She stated the university system wishes to have language included in the bill which states that programs offered through the university system in Nevada are approved for registration. She stated that language exists for architects in the statutes. She asked that language be placed in section 8, subsection 2. Ms. Norris stated the language "approved by the board" is ambiguous. Senator Augustine asked how many students from the Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas have taken the NCIDQ exam. Ms. Wolf-Pare` commented she is not certain. She pointed out the NCIDQ exam is voluntary. Senator Augustine asked how many graduates from her school have taken the exam. Ms. Wolf-Pare` stated there are only 52 NCIDQ-certified designers in Nevada and there are about 3,000 designers in the state currently working. She pointed out it is not an issue of how many people have passed the NCIDQ test, because the test has never been required before. Senator Augustine asked how many states require the NCIDQ exam. Mr. Warren stated 27 states require the NCIDQ exam. Mr. Parker commented he has a list of all the people who have taken and passed the exam in Nevada. Senator Lowden asked why it is so important to be called an interior designer. Ms. Norris commented it is not just the name, it is the description of the job. Senator Lowden asked if any of the courses in her school are transferrable to the university system. Ms. Wolf-Pare` stated they are not. She stated she has always specified she wished her students to be able to continue working at the job description listed in Exhibit E and to be able to become registered interior designers. She pointed out the issue has been more than just the name. Dr. Donald Myers, Academic Vice President, Interior Design Institute of Las Vegas, explained he also teaches at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas and has spent 37 years in postsecondary education. He expressed his concerns for the students who will be affected by this bill. He asked why the group of people representing the LCIDN are so adamant about cutting out the school and its graduates from qualifying for the exam. Senator Townsend stated removing section 35 solves the problem. He commented it puts the burden on Mr. Warren and his group to work with Ms. Wolf-Pare` or to come back to the committee and to educate the committee as to why the provisions in section 35 should be placed back into the law. Senator Augustine commented if the requirement for qualifying is moved to 1999, it should solve the problem. Ms. Norris stated changing the date will not help the students in the institute. They will not have enough years of experience to qualify for the exam. Mr. Warren offered to allow 2-year students until 2004 to qualify as long as they declare their intent to take the exam. Ms. Wolf-Pare` stated this offer will not help her students. She stated she could enroll people in her school until 1997, tell them to quickly file for intent to take the test, but on January 1, 1998, she will not be able to enroll anyone in her school, because they will not qualify for the exam. She stated the proposal is a 30-month death sentence for her school. Senator Townsend asked if the removal of section 35 will break a trust with the architects. Mr. Warren stated it is his understanding with the other design professionals in the state the agreement between them will fail if that section is removed. He stated to do so is "fatal to the venture." Ms. Wolf-Pare` commented up until May 31 the requirement for education still included a 2-year program with 4 years of experience. She pointed out if the negotiations have been going on for 18 months, the 2-year program was not the issue. Mr. Parker stated the negotiations continued for 6 weeks up to the date of the hearing on the bill on June 1. He stated the 2- year allowance for education was removed from the bill the night before it was heard in committee on June 1. Mr. Warren stated it was agreed by all parties involved to remove the language on May 24 during a meeting held in Reno. Exhibit G was discussed by the committee. Mr. Warren indicated subsections (a), (b), and (c) will not be a problem for the coalition. He commented he does not know about the rest of the provisions in the amendment. Ms. Wolf-Pare` commented her school is accredited and her school would be covered by subsection (d). Exhibit J was offered by Brian Gresh, Lobbyist, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada. Ms. Mack asked why it is not possible to take a codes and regulations test to allow decorators to work in commercial buildings. She commented they are not moving walls. Senator Augustine stated Ms. Mack has a choice, take the NCIDQ exam and the state exam and be allowed to work on commercial projects or not. Mr. Wadhams stated if a decorator or designer is working legally, now, this bill will not change what she is doing. He stated the people who wish to do the more technical work, entering into the engineering and architectural fields, will have to become licensed. He stated no one will be disenfranchised. He pointed out that everyone may continue to use their name. He stated the compromises protect the life- safety issues. Ms. Wolf-Pare` explained the proposed changes in Exhibit J will not help her school if the requirement remains a 4-year degree. She stated it will affect her job-placement program. She stated she is accountable to the federal government for funding to provide a certain quality of job placement and she must be able to place her students or lose her funding. She pointed out her school is Veterans Administration (VA)-approved. She stated her students will default on their loans if they cannot find jobs. Trisha Lincoln, Interior Designer, expressed her concerns about being required to be licensed under the architects' board. She stated the phrase "approval of the board" occurs frequently in the bill and the board will be composed primarily of architects. She pointed out that architects have tried, over the past several years, to limit interior designers and their scope of practice. She expressed her fear that they will be able to continue to do this under sanction of the law. She stated there will be five architects and three designers on the board. Senator Augustine commented it is commendable that the architects and the designers have been able to agree on the language of this bill. She stated all sides have finally been able to agree. Ms. Lincoln expressed her skepticism about the language in the bill versus what is intended in the bill and her distrust of having a board to regulate the industry. Senator Augustine pointed out having a board to regulate the others who are working in a profession is what having a regulatory board is all about. Mr. Warren stated he was present at every meeting during the time this bill was being drafted. He stated there are no guarantees in the world. He promised to the committee that "his personal experience . . . was that [the meetings] were open, honest, they did not pull any punches. We know exactly where they are coming from, but they gave the professional interior designer the respect and the courtesy of listening to them, and of understanding them." He stated that any reduction in the educational requirement will be fatal to the trust and understanding which has been established. Ms. Wolf-Pare` stated the bill is specific that the applicants must pass the NCIDQ, and, if they can, then, they should be able to qualify by testing, education and experience to take the test in Nevada and if they pass the test, they should be able to be a registered interior designer in Nevada. She stated eliminating a quality 2-year program is not a service to Nevada. Karen Abowd, Interior Designer, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada, expressed her support for the bill. She stated the bill indicates a level of professionalism. She stated a person must aspire to various testing levels to achieve a desired level of professionalism. She stated the bill does not eliminate anyone from the practice of interior design. Ms. Mack commented Mr. Warren has said that decorators or designers who work in the commercial field will not be able to continue to work. She stressed this is commercial decorating, not designing. Senator Lowden pointed out the regulations are frequently put into place without asking people if they want them. She pointed out that regulations are put in place to protect people and the safety of the public must come first. Ms. Mack stated that picking out colors, choosing paintings, wallpaper, and carpeting are not structural issues. She pointed out that flame retardant fabrics are used in commercial projects. She stated a decorator is not going to do structural work. Senator Lowden stated the bill does not address decorators. Ms. Mack stated the bill does affect decorators. Ms. Mack asked why there is not a safety codes and regulations test to allow decorators to work in rated structures. She stated the structural portion of the test is not needed. Bruce Goff, President, Legislative Coalition of Interior Designers of Nevada, pointed out that under Nevada law, the only people who are allowed to work in areas of code, which includes carpet, wallpaper, and finishes, are architects. He stated if it is not covered under a code, anyone may work on a project. Ms. Norris pointed out the NCIDQ is a 6-part exam. One part is on fire safety. Senator O'Connell asked why the decision to take out the 2-year requirement happened almost overnight when the negotiations had been going on for months. She commented she understands it was a point the architects insisted on to reach an agreement. Ms. Kaley stated it was always a priority to ask for the 4-year education for a designer. She stated, "A design team must be able to interface with one another on a professional level and there must be an understanding of all the different disciplines which are involved in a project." Senator O'Connell asked for clarification that "all along there was never an agreement, all of the time Nancy [Wolf-Pare`] was at all of the meetings, and she thought that it was going to be 2 years and that they were always arguing for 4 years. And finally you all agreed to the four years in order to get the agreement for the bill and yet she was taken totally by surprise by this." Mr. Warren commented on May 15 there was an agreement reached on the issue of the education requirement. Senator Regan commented the coalition has not been working with the architects for 18 months. They had worked with other boards, one of them being the landscape architects. The coalition and the architects have been working on the issue with them for 6 weeks. He asked what the landscape architects wanted to specify for education. Mr. Warren stated the landscape architects agreed to 2-year programs with experience. Senator Regan pointed out there are different degrees of expertise available in many professions. He commented, "If you hire a civil engineer to do structural work, you will get a structural, civil engineer. All structural engineers are civil engineers. All civil engineers are not structural engineers. There are degrees of profession even within the engineering field." He stated to disqualify the 2- and 4-year students in Nevada is bad public policy. Senator Townsend stated S.B. 506 is on the Senate floor and the proposed amendments will be considered. He stated the vote stands on the amended version of the bill. The hearing was closed at 7:50 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Molly Dondero, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor June 20, 1995 Page