MINUTES OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND LABOR Sixty-eighth Session June 16, 1995 The Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor was called to order by Chairman Randolph J. Townsend, at 8:00 a.m., on Friday, June 16, 1995, in Room 227 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman Senator Ann O'Connell, Vice Chairman Senator Sue Lowden Senator Kathy M. Augustine Senator Raymond C. Shaffer Senator John B. (Jack) Regan Senator Joseph M. Neal, Jr. STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Beverly Willis, Committee Secretary Scott Young, Senior Research Analyst GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT Assemblywoman Jan Evans Assemblywoman Sandi Krenzer OTHERS PRESENT: Margi Grein, Lobbyist, Director of Finance/Public Relations, State Contractors` Board Thomas Harrison, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Counseling and Educational Psychology, University of Nevada Reno Elizabeth Harrison, Ed.S., Mental Health Counseling Tom Sexton, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Counseling Education and Psychology, University of Nevada Las Vegas Andrea Kaylor, President, Greater Nevada School Counseling Association Jackie Galleger, Former Washoe County High School Counselor Robert Whittemore, Lobbyist, Nevada State Psychological Association Jerry Nims, Psychologist, Nevada State Psychological Association Richard Baldo, Psychologist, Nevada State Psychological Association Paula Berkley, Lobbyist, Board of Psychological Examiners Larry Struve, Chief, Office of Industrial Development and Planning, Department of Business and Industry Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Veterinary Medical Association Marie Soldo, Lobbyist, Vice President Government Affairs, Sierra Health Services Don Springmeyer, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association Jay Parmer, Lobbyist, State Contractors' Board I. R. Ashleman, Lobbyist, Southern Nevada Home Builders Association Senator Townsend opened the meeting with the hearing on Senate Bill (S.B.) 491. SENATE BILL 491: Authorizes inclusion of provision for mandatory binding arbitration in certain contracts of insurance. Margi Grein, Lobbyist, Director of Finance/Public Relations, State Contractors' Board, testified, presenting Exhibit C. Ms. Grein gave her explanation with support of this legislation as noted in Exhibit C. The hearing then opened on Assembly Bill (A.B.) 497. ASSEMBLY BILL 497: Provides for licensure and regulation of professional counselors. Assemblywoman Jan Evans, came forward with Exhibit D and an explanation. Ms. Evans stated this legislation will ensure professional counselors have received common academic course work at the master's degree level, will be required to have continuing education hours and must adhere to a code of ethics. Ms. Evans went on to note under current conditions, professional counselors are not bound by these requirements. In addition, they (professional counselors) would be required to complete 2,000 hours of post master's degree direct counseling experience. Ms. Evans continued stating her prime concern is the fact there are individuals practicing without regulation. She reiterated her concerns for the consumer and client protection. Ms. Evans introduced Thomas Harrison, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Counseling and Educational Psychology, University of Nevada Reno, who presented Exhibit E, his testimony. Mr. Harrison proceeded, in some detail, with items concerning the proposed budget, Exhibit F. Senator Townsend inquired if Mr. Thompson had knowledge if the Governor has an interest in processing this legislation, to which Mr. Harrison noted he could not answer this directly. Senator Augustine and Mr. Harrison discussed the fact that many boards have been and will be consolidated and problems faced by asking for a new entity. At this time, Senator Townsend addressed Exhibit G, referring to sections of a proposed amendment showing exemptions for licensure. Mr. Harrison gave a detailed explanation. Further discussion ensued between Mr. Harrison, Senator Shaffer and Senator O'Connell. Elizabeth Harrison, Ed.S., Mental Health Counseling, testified, presenting Exhibit H, (The original is on file in the Research Library.). Ms. Harrison asserted this report demonstrates the need for the formation of a new board. She went on to explain for Senator O'Connell, differences between "diagnosis" and "treatment." At this time, Tom Sexton, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Counseling Education and Psychology, University of Nevada, Las Vegas, noted he is licensed and works in a program for training professional counselors. He feels this legislation will help protect the consumer. Mr. Sexton noted without licensure, anyone is able to pose as a professional counselor. He went on to explain his reasoning, (Exhibit J). Senator Regan inquired if the consumer has problems with fraud, where any complaints might be filed. Mr. Sexton stated this is one of the problems; without any board, there is no one to report to. Mr. Harrison contributed his insight to this problem. Further dialogue continued with Mr. Harrison asserting to Senator Lowden if people do not hold themselves to be professional counselors, they; i.e., the clergy, certainly may continue their counseling duties. Lengthy discussion continued between Senator Townsend, Senator Regan, Mr. Harrison and Mr. Sexton, pertaining to potential advantages and potential pitfalls concerning this legislation. Assemblywoman Sandi Krenzer testified to lend her support for A.B. 497. Ms. Krenzer reiterated many concerns previously mentioned. Andrea Kaylor, President, Greater Nevada School Counseling Association, testified in support of A.B. 497. Ms. Kaylor noted her reasons for supporting the proposed legislation, among them being a consistent status is needed for master's level counselors. Jackie Galleger, Former Washoe County High School Counselor, testified, noting she supports this legislation. In particular, Ms. Galleger favors this legislation as she hopes to become a licensed professional counselor. Robert Whittemore, Lobbyist, Nevada State Psychological Association, presented Exhibit K. Mr. Whittemore noted his opposition to A.B. 497, and cited many instances for his opposition. Jerry Nims, Psychologist, Nevada State Psychological Association, testified next, presenting Exhibit L. Mr. Nims, referring to Exhibit L, indicated many of the same concerns noted by Mr. Whittemore. Mr. Nims asserted he would be glad to see more regulations for his profession; however, does not think this is the legislation to accomplish the job. Richard Baldo, Psychologist, Nevada State Psychological Association, noted he has been licensed as a marriage and family counselor. Mr. Baldo stated he is not sure this legislation will be helpful in protecting the consumer. Paula Berkley, Lobbyist, Board of Psychological Examiners, presented Exhibit M and testified stating, "I met with Ann Andreini in the Governor's office, late yesterday afternoon. She had just met with the Governor and she has authorized me to speak for the Governor in saying that he does not support this bill. His main reason was he feels there is no need for another board - there are five boards already dealing with mental health and somehow there needs to be a place in one of those." Ms. Berkley continued stating her organization feels "professional counselors" might become a part of marriage and family therapists and/or the psychological board. Senator Augustine, Elizabeth Harrison and Tom Sexton continued with discussion concerning the possibility of "professional counselors" merging with other boards. Mr. Whittemore, Senator Regan, Ms. Kaylor and Mr. Nims continued with a detailed discussion pertaining to wording, educational requirements and a variety of related items. At this point, Mr. Whittemore asserted he feels the scope of practice issue has not been settled and offered to serve in an advisory capacity if a work session is called for. At this time, Mr. Harrison reiterated his many concerns, noting he does not feel further work sessions will facilitate this legislation. Senator Townsend gave several comments, noting similar legislation has come before the committee in the past, with few changes in opinion. He went on noting: However, the one thing that has changed is the information that has come forward with regard to the Governor's involvement. I would suggest the proponents of this bill get a definitive answer, and you can get it today while you are here, on whether he will support a bill with an independent board that you have suggested, or whether the only bill he will support is if you are merged with, or put under a different board...We have work sessions every single day in this committee when we are posted. So your bill is alive till action is taken at this time. But it is unfair to our people to move forward on a bill unless we know exactly what the Governor's position is. If he is strongly against an additional board, you will have to come back with some other recommendations. The hearing was closed on A.B. 497 and the hearing opened on A.B. 439. ASSEMBLY BILL 439: Revises various provisions relating to mobile home parks. Larry Struve, Chief, Office of Industrial Development and Planning, Department of Business and Industry, presented his testimony explaining Exhibit N. Mr. Struve continued, stating, "I think the intent of A.B. 439, is to allow the administrator of the Manufactured Housing Division to make these adjustments and see that those who are eligible [for lot rent subsidy] are sharing on more or less a pro-rata basis of funds available in this account." At this time the hearing was closed on A.B. 439 and opened on S.B. 536. SENATE BILL 536: Makes various changes concerning licensure and regulation of veterinarians. Fred Hillerby, Lobbyist, Nevada Veterinary Medical Association, testified, referring to Exhibit O. SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS SENATE BILL 536 WITH AMENDMENT NO. 849. SENATOR LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The hearing was closed on S.B. 536 and opened on S.B. 491. First to testify, Marie Soldo, Lobbyist, Vice President Government Affairs, Sierra Health Services, referring to Exhibit P and Exhibit Q, started her testimony. Detailed discussion was held by Senator Townsend, Senator Regan, Scott Young, Senior Research Analyst and Don Springmeyer, Lobbyist, Nevada Trial Lawyers Association, again referring to Exhibit P and Exhibit Q. SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS SENATE BILL 491 WITH AMENDMENT NO. 734. SENATOR REGAN SECONDED THE MOTION. Senator Townsend outlined specific language to be used in Amendment 734 of S.B. 491. Before taking the vote, Jay Parmer, Lobbyist, State Contractors' Board, came forward with a number of objections. Mr. Parmer asked I. R. Ashleman, Lobbyist, Southern Nevada Home Builders Association, for his input. As there was some confusion, Senator Neal requested an opinion from Mr. Young. Mr. Young answered, noting however, "With the qualification that I don't function as attorney for the committee," continued with his comments. Senator Townsend continued commenting on confusion generated by several proponents of this legislation. Mr. Ashleman continued his comments. At this time, Senator Neal withdrew his original motion and presented a new motion. SENATOR NEAL MOVED TO AMEND AND DO PASS SENATE BILL 491 WITH AMENDMENT NO. 734 WITH NEW LANGUAGE. SENATOR LOWDEN SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. * * * * * Senator Neal requested Amendment No. 734 (Exhibit P and Exhibit Q) contain language suggested by Ms. Soldo (Exhibit P). There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:45 a.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Beverly Willis, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Senator Randolph J. Townsend, Chairman DATE: Senate Committee on Commerce and Labor June 16, 1995 Page