MINUTES OF THE ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION Sixty-eighth Session May 24, 1995 The Committee on Education was called to order at 3:30 p.m., on Wednesday, May 24, 1995, Chairman Wendell P. Williams presiding in Room 330 of the Legislative Building, Carson City, Nevada. Exhibit A is the Agenda. Exhibit B is the Attendance Roster. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Mr. William Z. (Bill) Harrington, Chairman Mr. Wendell P. Williams, Chairman Mrs. Gene Wines Segerblom, Vice Chairman Ms. Patricia A. Tripple, Vice Chairman Mr. Thomas Batten Mr. Max Bennett Mrs. Deanna Braunlin Mrs. Vonne Chowning Mrs. Marcia de Braga Mr. Mark Manendo Mr. P.M. Roy Neighbors Ms. Jeannine Stroth GUEST LEGISLATORS PRESENT: Mr. Morse Arberry, Jr., Assembly District 7 STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: H. Pepper Sturm, Chief Principal Research Analyst OTHERS PRESENT: Doug Byington, Nevada Association of School Administrators Greg Betts, Nevada Rural School Districts Carol Jackson, Nevada State Department of Employment Training and Rehabilitation The hearing was opened on A.B. 617. Chairman Williams noted Assemblymen Tripple, Bennett and Neighbors were attending a subcommittee meeting on Ponderosa County and would be present as the meeting progressed. ASSEMBLY BILL 617 - Requires school districts to report to legislature on adequacy of supply of textbooks. Assemblyman Mark Manendo, Assembly District 18, discussed the intent of A.B. 617. He stated his original intent was an appropriations bill for approximately $1 million for textbooks. This idea was changed due to lack of available funding. Mr. Manendo felt a study needed to be done investigating textbook shortages and the extent of outdated textbooks. This would supply information which would be helpful for the next legislative session in determining appropriations. He noted it is the Legislature's responsibility to supply appropriate funding for books and materials for Nevada's students. Mr. Manendo discussed lack of textbooks in many classrooms. Assemblyman Segerblom asked how school districts would report their findings. Mr. Manendo stated he hoped to obtain information from school districts regarding what processes they could participate in. He was unsure how schools and school districts kept track of textbooks. Assemblyman Braunlin suggested Mr. Manendo discuss the issue with the Superintendent of Public Instruction, with the possibility of State Education Department collecting the information. She disclosed she often hears about the lack of textbooks from her constituents. Mr. Doug Byington, Nevada Association of School Administrators, thanked Mr. Manendo for bringing the issue of lack of textbooks forward. He did not feel the issue was being addressed in the best possible way. Discussing the Distributive School Account (DSA), Mr. Byington explained the DSA should be addressing the issue. He reported escalating textbooks costs are a problem. Mr. Byington felt local school boards should be monitoring textbook availability and felt an attempt by the Legislature to explore the situation was micro management. Often a set of texts is kept in the classroom so students who forget their books can more easily participate in classroom activities. The method of textbook tracking in Washoe County for middle and high schools was discussed by Mr. Byington. He explained texts usually remain in elementary school classrooms and discussed the system used at this level for textbook tracking. He noted teachers often save sets of outdated textbooks for occasional use and recommended defining which books are to be counted and reported. Also discussed was the approximate ten year cycle of textbook replacement. Mr. Byington suggested a resolution as a more appropriate way to request the information on textbooks. Mr. Manendo's efforts were commended. Chairman Harrington asked if the bill's language could be changed to be more acceptable and enable the legislation to stay in bill form. The acquisition of valid information would assist in working toward an appropriation for the next legislative session. Mr. Byington said he did not have any at this time. He offered to work on some appropriate language with members of the educational coalition and Mr. Manendo. Dr. Harrington said he would like to pass the bill "as is" if new language were not forthcoming. Mr. Manendo said the figure in his original intent, $1 million, was just a chosen number. He would like to have valid information to back an appropriations request. He reiterated the need for solid information and for appropriate books and materials for students. Mr. Byington discussed yearly assessment of textbooks and methods of extending textbook life and usefulness such as rebinding. He felt most school districts knew the number of textbooks they have due to yearly inventories. It was recommended the counts be one on core curriculum texts. Assemblyman Batten said he did not feel it was the legislature's intent to micro manage school districts. Mr. Batten expressed his opposition to unfunded mandates. He recommended targeting core subject texts for tallying if anything is done and encouraging school districts to participate in the tally process. He felt the tallying process would have a large fiscal impact on districts. Mr. Batten asserted money would likely be shifted from one area of a district's budget to compensate for textbook tally. Mrs. Segerblom recounted how schools in Mr. Manendo's district did not have enough texts for students. This was an impetus for A.B. 617. Mr. Manendo agreed with Mrs. Segerblom. Referring to Mr. Batten's comments, Mr. Manendo felt being able to return to the next legislative session with actual figures of need would offer a better chance for an appropriation to be passed. Mr. Batten said he thought teachers knew where shortages are. He suggested teachers keeping their own statistics and turning them into principals. The principals could then pass the information on to a central collection point Mrs. Segerblom said she thought the information should be gathered by classroom teachers. They would assess what they have and project if their supplies are adequate for the next school year. Mr. Manendo agreed. These numbers are necessary for a secure figure for appropriation purposes. He expressed his desire for the most cost effective way possible for the information to be acquired. Mr. Byington explained the Distributive School Account (DSA) is built on a growth factor. Districts know growth occurs at a rate of 3%-4%. Budgets are constructed based on the growth, with a certain amount allocated for textbooks. He reminded the committee the education budget is very close to the Governor's recommendation. Due to the time lag between state budget preparation and fund allocation, Mr. Byington suggested the issue be addressed in the 1999 session. Chairman Williams asked if Mr. Byington and Mr. Greg Betts would work with Mr. Manendo on additional language for the bill. Mr. Manendo stated he would bring new language back to the committee on Wednesday, May 31, 1995. Assemblyman de Braga said she felt schools would be willing to volunteer information on textbooks. Ms. Jeannie Simons expressed her support on A.B. 617. She believed the DSA includes textbooks. Children statewide are not getting texts in appropriate quantities or are using outdated texts. Ms. Simons recommended tallying core curriculum texts. The hearing was closed on A.B. 617. The hearing was opened on A.B. 612. ASSEMBLY BILL 612 - Creates program to train unschooled young people in building trades. Assemblyman Morse Arberry, Jr., Assembly District 7, spoke in favor of A.B. 612. Mr. Arberry explained A.B. 612 creates a program for training of high school dropouts between the ages of 16 and 24. The program targets an apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship training in construction and structural rehabilitation trades. It targets individuals whose income is less than one-half the median income. The participants selected for the program may be assisted with a wage stipend and benefits for a period of six to twenty-four months. In addition to receiving primary training in construction trades, other eligible activities include basic instruction in remedial education, bilingual education assistance and attainment of a high school diploma or a General Equivalency Diploma (GED). The measure targets a growing segment of the population. According to the U.S. Department of Education, the high school drop out rate in Nevada is approximately fifteen percent. This is the second highest rate in the nation. The Nevada Department of Education reports the annual dropout rate has increased the last two years and has increased more than one percent in the last year alone. In Nevada the unemployment rate for persons ages sixteen to seventeen is almost seventeen percent. This is nearly three times the seven per cent general unemployment rate. Given the fast growing drop out rate, it is increasingly important effective methods to assist and train this particular segment of the population be developed. This measure provides one of the answers to the needs of high school dropouts while providing assistance to the fast growing construction industry in Nevada. Mr. Arberry urged the committee to pass the bill. Chairman Harrington complimented Assemblyman Arberry on the bill. He expressed concern regarding Page 1, Lines 10 through 11, where it is stipulated young people who are not attending school and have not graduated qualify for the program. Dr. Harrington wondered if incentive was being provided for young people to want to drop out, join the construction trade program and not finish high school. Mr. Arberry stated he had the same concern and intended to work on the problem. Mrs. Segerblom asked if people over age 22 with no high school diploma could attend college. Chairman Williams said people could attend the community colleges without having a high school diploma. Ms. Carol Jackson, Director, Nevada State Department of Employment Training and Rehabilitation, said one could attend the university without a high school diploma. It is necessary to sign up as a special student. Mrs. Segerblom asked if "special students" could become regular students after the first year. Ms. Jackson indicated a GED was probably necessary to be admitted as a regular student. Chairman Williams explained those signed up as "special students" could not pursue a college degree until a high school diploma or equivalency was obtained. Assemblyman Stroth indicated her support for training programs for youth. She asked how A.B. 612 coincided or conflicted with the school to work bill recently heard by the committee. Mr. Arberry could not answer the question. Chairman Williams noted information had been received indicating school to work legislation deals with federal funding. A.B. 612 requires state funding. Ms. Jackson commented two issues exist regarding the school to work bill. A.B. 612 focuses on people ages 16-25 who do not have a GED. The school to work program is for students in high school who are provided with a skill so they are able to enter the workforce upon graduation. She reminded the committee 68% of Nevada's high school graduates do not continue on to college. Ms. Jackson expressed support for A.B. 612 because it enhances the employability of underprivileged young people, particularly education and training. She stated she had some areas of concern and had agreed to meet with Mr. Arberry and Mr. Williams to discuss them and return to the committee with the information. Mr. Arberry informed the committee of an appropriation in the bill. He assumed once the bill went through the Education Committee it would have to be rereferred to Ways and Means. Assemblyman Chowning commented the current session of the legislature was setting a number of positive policy statements such as school to work, business tax credit incentives for hiring students and others. Many incentives are being created to keep young people in school. She wondered if the grant related to A.B. 612 would be state money and asked if the money would go through an agency like Nevada Business Services in Las Vegas. Ms. Jackson explained her department funds the Nevada Business Service. Referring to her earlier concerns, Ms. Jackson said she did not feel funding for this program should go through Nevada Business Service. The Department of Employment Training and Rehabilitation is set up to handle the needs of the bill and has agencies involved in apprenticeship programs. This could tie the agencies together and make more efficient use of departmental resources. Mrs. Chowning asked if Ms. Jackson would change Section 4. Ms. Jackson indicated Section 4 was an area to be discussed, as well as Section 5. The bill currently appropriates $250,000 for the 1996-1997 biennium. It would be impossible to make a $300,000 grant out of that. The possibility of applying for a federal grant was discussed. Chairman Williams asked how soon the bill could be returned to the committee for action. Mr. Arberry indicated it could be returned by Monday, May 29, 1995. Mrs. Chowning indicated the same concerns brought up by Dr. Harrington encouraging students to drop out of school to attend the program. She suggested including students who are still in school and the business tax incentive program. Mrs. de Braga remarked current wording indicates youth must meet all three requirements. She suggested screening the youth or ascertaining their nonattendance at school for a certain period of time. As the bill reads currently, youth cannot be attending school, are not required to attend and have not graduated or received a GED. Assemblyman Stroth informed the committee of a companion bill similar to A.B. 612 introduced by Assemblyman Bennett. It would allow for hiring of older dropout, at risk, young people while offering a business deduction. She noted it would be heard in Taxation Committee on May 25, 1995. The hearing was closed on A.B. 612. A work session was opened on Assembly Bill 482. ASSEMBLY BILL 482- Makes appropriation to department of education to increase number of school nurses in county school districts. Chairman Williams reminded the committee A.B. 482 was concurrently referred to the Education Committee and Ways and Means. In previous testimony, no testimony in opposition was received. The main concern was the fiscal issue. Mrs. Chowning discussed the problem of the high fiscal note. She recommended indefinitely postponing A.B. 482 and drawing up a resolution to send a message of legislative support of the need of more school nurses. She explained she had discussed the idea with the bill's proponents and they were agreeable. Chairman Williams validated Mrs. Chowning's idea, saying "more mileage" might be gained. Ways and Means would only consider the fiscal aspect and, if funding is not available, will indefinitely postpone the bill. Assemblyman Bennett asked what the current nurse to student ratio is. Mrs. Segerblom disclosed the ratio is 1:4,000 in high school, 1:2,400 in middle school and 1:1,800 in elementary school. She asked if any relief could be given to nurses. Mrs. Chowning said she felt it was a policy statement the Education Committee need to deal with. She suggested recommending examination of what funding would be possible. Mr. Batten was not in favor of a resolution. With the committee's intent and support to add nurses, lack of funding makes the resolution purposeless. Chairman Williams suggested sending the bill on to Ways and Means and developing a resolution in support of the issue. Chairman Harrington agreed the bill would be indefinitely postponed in Ways and Means. He stated if $10 million were available he would prefer it be spent on students in the classroom. Mrs. Chowning asked Mr. Sturm to explain another possibility. Mr. H. Pepper Sturm, Chief Principal Research Analyst, Legislative Counsel Bureau, suggested amending Statutes of Nevada from 1991 which set up the report leading to A.B. 482. Under Senate Bill 558 of the 1991 session each school district was required to report to the 1993 and 1995 Legislative sessions regarding its plan to achieve and maintain a ratio of 1:1,000. By adding the 1997 session, this could be kept alive. Mrs. Chowning felt Mr. Sturm's idea was a good one. The issue would have to be revisited in 1997 with accurate data. A decision could be made on the most recent, accurate data. The Department of Education would be required to issue another report regarding the issue. Mr. Manendo agreed with Mrs. Chowning. ASSEMBLYMAN CHOWNING MOVED TO AMEND A.B. 482 IN ENTIRETY TO CHANGE CHAPTER 536, SECTION 5 OF STATUTES OF NEVADA, 1991, TO REQUIRE EXTENSION OF THE REPORT BY THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO THE LEGISLATURE SPECIFIED THEREIN REQUIRING SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO DEVELOP A PLAN ON IMPLEMENTING A 1:1000 STUDENT NURSE RATIO BE CONTINUED TO 1997 AND THE 69TH SESSION. THE MOTION WAS SECONDED BY MR. MANENDO. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. A work session was opened on Assembly Bill 577. ASSEMBLY BILL 577 - Requires certain educational personnel to complete program for detection and reporting of abuse or neglect of children as condition for issuance or renewal of license or endorsement. ASSEMBLYMAN BENNETT MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE A.B. 577. ASSEMBLYMAN BATTEN SECONDED THE MOTION. Chairman Harrington announced the teacher's union was meeting with the bill's proponents to bring new, mutually acceptable language before the committee. Ms. Debbie Cahill, Nevada State Education Association (NSEA), explained there was not support for tying the mandate in the bill to teacher licensure. A resolution was suggested. She said Assemblyman Lambert would be amenable to a resolution. A meeting was held with Susan Rose, the bill's main proponent and Mary Peterson, Superintendent of Public Instruction. Ms. Rose has agreed to a resolution in place of A.B. 577. Ms. Cahill had tentative language prepared but needed to have the language cleared and brought to the committee in official resolution form. Assemblyman Batten was not in favor of a resolution because it has no impact for the intentions of the bill. There is no funding provided. He suggested considering the idea in the future when funding is available. Ms. Cahill reiterated the bill's proponents were in favor of a resolution. She explained the resolution would be three pronged urging school districts to provide the training, urging districts to avail themselves of the training and urging the colleges of education to incorporate the training in courses of teacher preparation. For the record, NSEA favors indefinitely postponing A.B. 577. Chairman Williams noted the action on A.B. 577 does not prevent anyone from developing a resolution later. Assemblyman Tripple asked about credits required by teachers to keep their licenses updated. Ms. Cahill stated teachers have to have six credits in five year's time. Ms. Tripple asked if there was an avenue for teachers to seek education in this area if they were encouraged and not mandated to do so. Ms. Cahill said the major concern with A.B. 577 is there is not much training readily available. She felt if training was readily available teachers would get the training. Mr. Neighbors supported the motion. He did not feel eight hours of instruction was enough. Mrs. Chowning confirmed the importance of the issue. She felt eight hours of training could be effective. She recommended waiting for new language so a message would not be sent that the legislature did not feel the issue was important. Ms. Cahill read her proposed draft of a resolution: "Whereas, incidents of child abuse are increasing in Nevada, and, Whereas, child abuse can consist of mental abuse as well as physical abuse, and, Whereas, the signs and symptoms of child abuse may not be easily recognized, and Whereas, licensed school district personnel are required by law to report suspected child abuse, and, Whereas, training in recognizing and reporting child abuse is not consistently and readily available, be it resolved that school districts in Nevada are urged to develop and provide training in recognizing and reporting child abuse and that licensed personnel of school districts are urged to avail themselves of such training and the colleges and universities in Nevada which provide teacher preparation education are urged to incorporate into their teacher preparation programs a course in recognizing and reporting child abuse." THE MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. A work session was opened on A.B. 494. ASSEMBLY BILL 494 - Revises provisions governing maximum allowable pupil- teacher ratio in kindergarten through grade 6. ASSEMBLYMAN BATTEN MOVED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE A.B. 494. ASSEMBLYMAN CHOWNING SECONDED THE MOTION. Mr. Batten explained Senate Bill 567 of the 1993 session appropriated the funds for class size reduction and placed class size reduction at 15:1. The statute is for 15:1 and the funding is for 16:1. This incorporates grades K-3. In A.B. 494 class sizes can be as large as 22:1 to 25:1, thereby reducing class sizes in upper grades. Mr. Batten expressed concern for lower grades. If A.B. 494 were enacted school districts can raise class size minimums in any grades, including those at risk, to 22:1 to 25:1. Mr. Batten felt this would violate the intent of the statute dealing with class size. He was especially concerned with at risk children. Mr. Manendo agreed with Mr. Batten. He felt this would be a step backwards in Grades K-2 and stated the program had not had a chance to develop fully. He did agree with lowering grades 4-6 to 24:1 to 26:1. Chairman Harrington agreed with the idea of not letting a class size go above 26 students. He recommended keeping class sizes below 30 for all grade levels. Mrs. Chowning said thirty years ago the optimum class size was 17:1. She discussed the differences in classroom makeup then and now, noting changing societal differences. Considering the societal changes, Mrs. Chowning felt it made equal sense to continue with the 17:1 ratio. She reminded the committee school districts were building schools to accommodate class size reduction. Ms. Tripple announced she had visited classrooms in Sun Valley and felt a marvelous job was being done. She felt the class size reduction plan had not been given enough time to develop and for proper evaluation to be done. The plan has not been implemented completely or correctly. Many districts have two teachers and thirty students. Ms. Tripple suggested indefinitely postponing the bill and give the other plan time to develop sufficiently. Mr. Batten discussed how poor and disadvantaged students are at risk students. NRS 388.710 states specifically "at risk" students are targeted. THE MOTION PASSED WITH ASSEMBLYMEN STROTH, HARRINGTON AND BENNETT VOTING NO. There being no further business to come before the committee, the meeting was adjourned at 5:12 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: Barbara Prudic, Committee Secretary APPROVED BY: Assemblyman William Z. Harrington, Chairman Assemblyman Wendell P. Williams, Chairman Assembly Committee on Education May 24, 1995 Page