THE NINTH DAY

                               

Carson City (Wednesday), June 11, 2003

    Senate called to order at 3:40 p.m.

    President Hunt presiding.

    Roll called.

    All present.

    Prayer by Senator Rawson.

    Our Father in heaven, we are grateful for our blessings. We are thankful for this great State and for all of the wonderful opportunity and the diversity of interest that we find here. We ask for Thy Spirit to be with us to help us find the common good and the common interest. Help us in our way to be able to accomplish our obligation to the people of this State.

    We ask for Thee to be with us, and we do this in Thy Holy Name.

Amen.

    Pledge of allegiance to the Flag.

    Senator Raggio moved that further reading of the Journal be dispensed with, and the President and Secretary be authorized to make the necessary corrections and additions.

    Motion carried.

MOTIONS, RESOLUTIONS AND NOTICES

    Senator Raggio moved that the Senate resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole for the purpose of considering various revenue plans and the unresolved issues of the 72nd Legislative Session, with Senator Raggio as Chairman and Senator McGinness as Vice Chairman of the Committee of the Whole.

    Motion carried.

IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE

    At 3:53 p.m.

    Senator Raggio presiding.

    Various revenue plans and the unresolved issues of the 72nd Legislative Session considered.

    The Committee of the Whole was addressed by Senator Raggio; Senator Amodei; Senator Coffin; Gary L. Ghiggeri, Senate Fiscal Analyst; Senator Nolan; Senator O'Connell; Senator Neal; Senator Rawson; Senator Townsend; Senator Care; Senator McGinness; Senator Titus and Senator Schneider.

    Senator Raggio:

    Since the last time we met, the vote on the floor of Senate on Senate Bill No. 4 failed. Therefore, we are back in the Committee of the Whole. It is an open secret that the members of the Legislature in both Houses and the various caucuses have been meeting consistently to try to determine whether or not there is a consensus for a revenue plan that will meet the needs of the budget which we have passed. There has been extensive discussion, negotiation and exchange of information on this issue. It is the Chair’s understanding that we have not yet reached a decision on a measure that will pass in this House let alone one that will meet the two-thirds requirement of the Legislature as a whole. Having said that, there are plans that have been proposed by caucuses, by members of the other House as well. They have been examined and adjusted. It is time for us to sit as a Committee of the Whole where we can sit together to reach an agreement or a consensus on a plan. We have a plan that has been finalized by the Republican membership in this House. It has been shared with the Democrat membership. It has no single author. It has many authors. The issues have been studied. Concerns about each component of the revenue plan have been studied. Now is a good time to bring it forth. There is a plan sent to us by the Democratic membership of the Assembly. It is open for discussion. At this time, it seems there is not much to gain by reopening Senate Bill No. 4. The issues are, one: is there a plan that can muster a two-thirds vote, two: is there the mechanics for any such plan that can be agreed to?

    Senator Amodei will outline the revised plan before us. He will refer to the paper before you marked Senate Caucus, 2:27 p.m., June 11, 2003.

    Senator Amodei :

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This latest sheet represents discussions with people on both sides of the aisle, various industry groups, listening to the concerns and the absolute lines-in-the-sand, and where we thought there was ability to make progress. The Taxation Revenue Options is before you. The cigarette plan represents a 45-cent increase in fiscal year 2004. It would be followed with another 5-cent increase in fiscal year 2005. The price would go up a total of 50 cents during those two years. The last plan, under consideration by our colleagues in the other party in both Houses, had proposed a 35-cent increase in cigarette tax. We felt this represented some movement on that issue as a result of the input of all the legislators involved.

    The next two items concern liquor and tobacco allowances. Those have not been the subjects of much discussion over the last 72 hours.

    There were many proposals for the liquor excise tax between a 50-percent increase and a 100‑percent increase. We proposed an 89-percent increase. Our colleagues indicated 75 percent was more in order. Before you is a 75-percent increase that starts in fiscal year 2004.

    The LSST retailer allowance has not matriculated as a result of the discussions during the last 72 hours. The business license fee has alternated between $50 and $100 per year. The proposal puts it at $75 per year. The business license tax is repealed January 1, 2004. The Secretary of State fees based on A.B. No. 536 of the 72nd Session with amendments proposed in conference regarding securities has not been the subject of much substantive discussion over the past 72 hours.

    Senator Raggio:

    On the business license tax, formally known as BAT, effective January 1, 2004, there would be no business license tax paid at all. Is that correct?

    Senator Amodei:

    That is correct.

    Senator Raggio:

    That is why we have a loss of $40.6 million the first fiscal year and for a full year, a loss of $83.8 million. Is that the explanation?

    Senator Amodei:

    That is correct. Next is the live entertainment tax with 10 percent on casino and non-casino events. That had little of nothing in the way of exemptions. Exclusions for food and beverage have been provided in facilities with over 5,000 seats. There are different effective dates. Those were the result of discussions on both sides.

    The room tax is a 1-percent increase. The discussions showed there were two positions. One was to eliminate a room tax provision and the other to have one at 1 percent. This measure reflects a room tax that would be levied by the State at 1 percent.

    The gaming provision comes from this Committee of the Whole in the context of an amendment to Senate Bill No. 4 has not changed as a result of the adoption of Senator Care’s amendment several days ago. Restricted slots at a 33-percent increase has not been the topic of discussion and has not changed during the last 72 hours.

    The real estate transfer tax in our last plan was $1.55 per $500 of value. The proposal is a $1.35 per $500 of value, and the real estate transfer tax is initiated under this proposal in the second year of the biennium. There has been discussion of adopting a provision that is similar to IRS Code 1220 that provides for a step down for those who pay the tax if the property is transferred again within a certain time frame and time schedule that will be adopted. There would be a decreasing credit based upon how close it is to the original date of transaction to lessen the impact on those who buy, sell and trade property on a regular basis within a 5-or 10‑year context.

    The final provision is the one that generated the most controversy. It is the employer tax at 1.1 percent of capped wages. Our caucus focused on this tax during discussions. There were things we felt were strong about this as a potential revenue source. There was a known, specific universe to tax because of data on the ESD form the State currently collects. There would be no doubt, when voting for this tax, what amount of revenue would be raised. There were concerns from those in the labor sector that a tax on wages which was uncapped would penalize those employers and would keep them from providing raises, or it would penalize those who provide jobs that are high paying. That is why the ESD data is focused on as a cap for those provisions. It floats with the average State wage. The net effect of that provision is that wages paid above that amount are not subject to the proposed 1.1-percent tax rate. All wages paid above that would not be taxed. Because of concerns by the labor sector, the rate was reduced from yesterday’s rate of 1.25 percent which provided an equivalent of $268.75 per employee, to a rate of 1.1 percent which provides $236.50 per employee. That was thought to be an appropriate move because it reduced by half the amount above $200 that is being taxed, thereby, putting half of the money above $200 per employee back on the table for potential inclusion in collective bargaining negotiations.

    Why is $200 a significant figure? There were many in the business industry who pointed to the head tax which is presently $100 per employee per year and said they liked the stability of doubling it and knowing what they were getting into. In some peoples’ minds, the $200 figure was the figure being negotiated.

    The provision, that is not in here and is the other half of the controversy, is an income-based tax provision focusing on a gross receipts driven proposition. It was offered as the other half of the funding for what these line items fund. The tax revenue sheet explains that the employers’ tax of 1.1 percent of capped wages generates approximately $360 million a year. The issue is how do you fund $360 million in the biennium as a result of broad-based business taxes. This is what we thought represented the best possible alternative for generating those revenues. There is a disagreement as to whether or not a gross-receipts based tax should play a significant roll. As of last night, the suggested proposal provided that a gross-receipts tax which had 18 brackets and 6 exclusions could play a roll in raising a significant portion of the $360 million in a biennium.

    After evaluating that tax and listening to organized labor's concerns about money available for collective bargaining, it was the view of the majority of those in the Senate Republican caucus that a reduction in the payroll tax to provide half of that amount above $200 was an appropriate response. We were trying to address the concerns of organized labor rather than trying to implement a gross-receipts tax on income based upon 18 brackets and exclusions for six different industries.

    Senator Raggio:

    What is the facility of implementation of this plan?

    Senator Amodei:

    In discussions, there was a concern about the operational state of our infrastructure for tax collection right now. The existing budget has reflected that by providing multiple, additional and significant resources to allow those who work on our behalf to collect taxes and monitor revenue to try to do their job in a better way with additional infrastructure and additional personnel. The information we received from staff and from the Department of Taxation indicated the employer tax, which anticipates the phase out of the existing business activity tax, that the Department resources devoted to collecting the RAT could be devoted to collection of the employer surcharge on capped wages. In comparing that to a gross-receipts tax start-up, the concerns were that we did not have a database in existence that would allow us to be specific about the tax rate to avoid over-collection. We do not presently collect that information, but the Governor’s Task Force has done a great deal of work on that issue.

    Apportionment issues were a problem because the tax that was proposed was a multi-state tax. California is the only other state close to us with this tax. We believe the California Franchise Tax Board is engaged in extensive litigation regarding apportionment issues. Nevada’s borders do not mean much in terms of the economy that drives our State. We are part of the Intermountain West. We play in the Pacific Rim. The time needed, to address the apportionment issues, seems like a very large hill to climb for purposes of implementing this source.

    The decision, reflected in that caucus, was that the employer tax was more practical and cost effective and a more certain proposition to fund the budget, which has already been approved, than going the other way.

    Senator Raggio:

    Staff indicates that if this plan were adopted an appropriate bill draft would be available by 6:00 p.m. today.

    Are there any comments or questions from the Committee?

    Senator Coffin:

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Though Senate Bill No. 4 is dead, we had many discussions about the intent of the provisions of these drafts that did not make their way into the language of the bill that could be easily read, interpreted and argued. We entered into a dialogue about intent as to what we wanted to collect and how far we wanted to stretch on some of these issues. I would like to think that the dialogue we had on these topics still stands since the taxes we discussed at that time were similar in their reach. The entertainment tax was brought into the tax bill so that we might be able to have live entertainment clubs brought under the tax umbrella. They are profitable and are willing to pay their civic duty and join the casinos in doing so. But then, we realized we had events of a special nature that were competitive with other states and other cities outside Nevada.  We discussed boxing, events at the raceway and events such as rodeos. Those are important to us. They are contained in the live entertainment tax, and I have not seen a footnote that indicates that they will be exempt.

    Senator Raggio:

    The only footnote to the Chair’s understanding is that it is a tax on admissions to live entertainment events excluding food and beverages in facilities over 5,000 seats.

    Gary L. Ghiggeri (Senate Fiscal Analyst):

    That would also exclude non-profits, trade shows and music performed by strolling musicians.

    Senator Coffin:

    That would be in Italian restaurants. Staff has mentioned some of the intent. Do we still have the appetite for these other special events? Non-profit may or may not include all of the ones discussed the other day.

    Senator Raggio:

    Does anyone else wish to respond?

    Senator Amodei:

    Mr. Chairman, I am not familiar with this aspect of the bill. Senator Coffin has mentioned this before. I am not certain that this segment of it has been researched in terms of talking about potential changes. Senator Nolan had some concerns, as did Senator Shaffer.

    Senator Nolan:

    I will support this in the package because this tax package is constructed on a house of cards. My concern is that there are events that are competitive in nature. If we are unable to attract them due to the imposition of this tax, then we will affect the balance of the other taxes proposed including room taxes. Some of these events will bring in tens of thousands of people. These events are negotiated by organizations. They may not be a non-profit organization, but they may be an organization that will negotiate a price for hotel rooms and services and the ability to retail their product. They will look for the best venue they can get. I would like to see an amendment to this if this is included in this tax. That amendment should allow for an exemption to be issued by the Department of Taxation so they could develop an objective criteria if a hotel or any other venue can demonstrate that the imposition of this tax will negatively impact them in such a way that we would lose the event along with its associated revenue from that event. They should have the ability to grant an exemption. If it is constructed in a way that there is a threshold based on the size of the event, based upon the net or the number of rooms, then we should be able to construct the exemption in an objective way.

    Senator Raggio:

    There is a typographical error on footnote 1. It should read, excluding food and beverages “in” facilities over 5,000 seats.

    Senator O'Connell:

    Senate Bill No. 4 was narrowed with the non-profits to the 501(c)(3). Do I understand from the last vote taken that we included all 501(c) organizations? That is a much broader aspect as it refers to the non-profits.

    Senator Raggio:

    The summary from staff says the following, “the live entertainment tax would not apply to any amount paid for live entertainment that is provided by or entirely for the benefit of a non‑profit organization that is recognized as exempt from taxation pursuant to 26 US Code section 501.”

    Senator Neal:

    That is very extensive.

    Senator Raggio:

    Yes, that is 501 not just 501(c)(3). I am relying on this summary. We would have to see the bill.

    Senator Nolan:

    With respect to the last question, in essence, it gives our universities an opportunity to not impose this and to not become tax collectors. It puts them and their facilities in direct competition with the private sector for the same venues. Another problem exists with the 5,000‑seat regulation. There are a number of facilities with large hotel-convention facilities. They can adjust their seating from 500 to 10,000 seats. I feel 5,000 is an arbitrary number. I would be more comfortable if we included the 501(c)(3)s. Those organizations should be in there, but if this is included, there should be a process for exemption.

    Senator Coffin:

    I think Senator Nolan expressed my concerns well. We should consider this. There is no motion on the floor, and we are in discussion. We should try to get some language in there to address this. Some flexibility should be given. We are looking at entertainment numbers. They are hard to predict. We could be counting dollars we do not have. We should leave it open. The Republican plan has taken out the bank franchise fees. That is a change from the Assembly Democrat plan. That should satisfy some of the members. There are some things I do not like, but the main thing is that we are moving forward with these proposals negotiated by the Republican caucus. There may be some serious objections to others. 

    Senator Rawson:

    I wanted to be certain that footnote 3 of the Taxation Revenue Options paper has to do with the Secretary of State fees.

    Senator Raggio:

    Would staff explain the reference to S.B. No. 258 of the 72nd Session?


     Mr. Ghiggeri:

    S.B. No. 258 of the 72nd Session is a bill with appropriations for pediatric endocrinology and some other appropriations. The Governor was going to refer those back to the Legislature for further consideration once the tax package was developed. Staff has included those appropriations into the General Fund need as reflected on these sheets. The Secretary of State fees would be a separate bill from the legislation currently being considered. The revenue estimates for the Secretary of State fees are included on this sheet.

    Senator Raggio:

    The motion is to recommend a bill draft with these provisions, be requested and if so, that the Committee of the Whole will recommend a do pass on the bill draft which will be designated as S.B. No. 5.

    Senator Townsend:

    So moved.

   

    Senator Amodei:

    Second the motion.

    Senator Neal:

    Is it possible to take a roll call vote on this?

    Senator Raggio:

    Yes. There can be a roll call vote.

    Senator Nolan:

    I would ask the maker of the motion and the Senator who seconded the motion to consider an amendment to their motion to include my proposition that with respect to the live entertainment tax. That those events projected to bring in an attendance of more than 2,500 the Department of Taxation be given the latitude to develop objective criteria by which they can grant an exemption if the event promoter can demonstrate objectively that the imposition of this tax would directly cause them to lose the event in a competitive process.

    Senator Raggio:

    The Chair will accept that as an amendment to the motion before us.

    Senator Coffin:

    Second the motion.

    Senator Care:

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It would seem to me that the ultimate crafters of the tax policy in this State would be the people in this room. I appreciate what Senator Nolan has proposed, but the standards are ambiguous. It is up to us to enumerate any exemptions. That is the way it has traditionally been done. We will be giving unbridled discretion of commission with whatever we pass out of this legislative House. We should not give them that much. We are the ones who should be deciding about exemptions. Another problem is that once you get into exemptions, then everyone wants their exemption as well. I would be opposed to Senator Nolan’s proposal.

    Senator Townsend:

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The last time we were in this room, Senator Coffin spoke regarding the issue of competitive events as opposed to the motion. I respect his view, but it seems to be a challenge to the Commission on Taxation. Senator Care has made his position clear, and I agree with him. I would consider a conference amendment from the other House to deal with it. Senator Coffin’s original contention was a more appropriate one as it dealt with competitive events that we are trying to encourage to come to this State. They bring much to the economy. I would not want to see the competitive event to include “mud wrestling.” One of the goals is to capture live entertainment for what it is and not for what it is not.


    Senator McGinness:

    I have a few concerns with the amendment. The revenue projections would have to be revised. A fiscal note would be needed, and I do not believe the Department of Taxation is the appropriate place for this. The Nevada Tax Commission would be more of a full-time job than it already is. I will oppose the motion.

    Senator Nolan:

    I can see where this amendment is going. It was hastily crafted to deal with what I feel is a real issue for a state that lives off entertainment and special events. It is an important consideration. I will amend my motion to that which Senator Townsend had articulated and to Senator Coffin’s earlier proposal to limit it to non-competitive events.

    Senator Raggio:

    Since we are concerned about the revenue plan, the bill should include the Committee on Taxation where the issue could be looked at in the interim by that committee. Is the amendment to the motion withdrawn?

    Senator Nolan:

    If it is acceptable, I will withdraw my motion.

    Senator Raggio:

    Is that agreeable with Senator Coffin who seconded the motion?

    Senator Coffin:

    Yes.

    Senator Raggio:

    It is withdrawn.

    Senator Nolan:

    I move that we have the live entertainment tax applied to those events excluding those provisions already enumerated as well as competitive events.

    Senator Raggio:

    Before accepting the motion, I have been advised by staff that whatever we do will affect the projections on the revenue. Is there a second?

    Senator Coffin:

    Second, I would like to elaborate a little to address Senator Care’s concerns. We do have ample precedent for the commissions, not necessarily the Tax Commission, though, they do have a great deal of latitude, but the Economic Development Commission has on numerous occasions brought forth, using the protocols set legislatively, what they consider to be eligible projects whereby they might defer taxation on projects to increase economic activity. This falls into the same category. This part of the bill could fall into that same statutory reach as that of the Economic Development Commission. They have their fingertips on the pulse of what is going on around the country. They know what they have to compete against whether it is conventions or special events. As we work our way through this language, we might consider that to be one of the eligible bodies that might be most appropriate for deciding the exemptions. That might be a modification of the motion.

    Senator Raggio:

    Could Senator Nolan restate the amendment to the main motion?

    Senator Nolan:

    Mr. Chairman, I will not push a motion which does not have consensus. I have gotten some direction from Senator Townsend and my colleague, Senator Coffin. We could include those events already enumerated as exemptions as well as competitive events.


    Senator Rawson:

    If we were inclined to support that, there might be some security that would be offered. The amount of money projected that would be raised from the live entertainment tax is $46 million. We have $4.7 million in excess of what is required.

    Senator Raggio:

    The effective date for non-gaming establishments is January 1, 2004.

   

    Senator Rawson:

    There could be a requirement put in place that whoever has the authority to make this exception or deferment not be able to defer more than 5 or 10 percent of the amount of money raised through the tax. That gives us some security that we are not going to be out of balance.

    Senator Raggio:

    We are getting a groan from staff who are trying to figure out where we are going to be with the anticipated revenue.

    Mr. Ghiggeri:

    We would have to reevaluate where we are. We would have to segregate our competitive events and further define them to determine the impact on the revenue estimate.

    Senator Neal:

    I am at a loss trying to understand what has happened here. I will ask this question to clarify for me where we are going with this. We have exempted the non-profits, the 501(c)(3)s. What groups are you trying to reach with this amendment?

    Senator Nolan:

    I will disclose I am a member of the Board of Directors for Las Vegas Events, which is an organization that works to develop events to bring those events into southern Nevada. The lure of events in southern Nevada is not just the revenue received, not just the watching of the events themselves, but room revenues, sales tax revenues, tips and show tickets that go along with the events. I am not looking at one organization, event or venue. I am concerned that statewide there are some events negotiated by not-for-profit organizations and by large companies that book and sell these venues in different parts of the country. This is a competitive environment. The tax on the rooms booked in advance, the ticket sales and retail sales are counted on heavily to garner revenue for the State, but it might also make us non-competitive. We might lose those events. We do not just lose ticket sales from those events. We lose everything listed. That is a realistic concern.

    Senator Raggio:

    I will read from the proposed language in the bill. This deals with the committee created under the proposed plan. It would amend NRS 218.53883 to include this language. “The committee shall review the laws relating to the exemptions from, … and the distribution of revenue, etc … and also shall consider the purposes for which various exemptions from taxes were adopted whether any of those exemptions have become obsolete or no longer serve their intended purpose … ” It continues with the committee’s authority to review and recommend exemptions. It is my opinion that anything we try to do now is going to put staff in a difficult situation to try to determine who is going to be affected by any changes in this language. I will accept the Committee’s view on this.

    Senator Coffin:

    I would like to address Senator Neal’s question. It is a policy question. We have agreed to exempt 501(c) organizations. I am not certain if we mentioned competitive sports. We are competitive with other venues for those activities. Boxing promoters are not charitable individuals. Television networks that sell these fights are not charitable individuals. They will not fit into those categories. We have to find a broad category that will not name a specific sport. We want them to bring their fights here. We want to offer an incentive. Boxing tickets range from $200 to $2,000 a ticket. If you add an extra $200 to the price of a ticket, it will have a retarding effect on the sale of tickets. Race and rodeo tickets are also high priced.

    Senator Neal:

    Who sets the price for boxing tickets?

    Senator Coffin:

    I do not know. It could be the promoter. It could be the venue. It could be shared with the networks. I do not know.

    Senator Neal:

    It is the promoter and the people who bring boxing in.

    Senator Coffin:

    I do not know. Chairman Raggio has the right idea. The committee created in the bill must have the authority, and that is the intent I hope we make clear today. We may not need a motion at this point.

    Senator Raggio:

    I asked staff how this would apply. Let us say there was a boxing event and a ticket was $100 as example. The 10 percent would apply to the admission of the ticket. The exemption would exclude the tax on any of the food and beverage sold at the event.

    Senator Coffin:

    If what you said is correct, I do not know how the committee might go on this. There have been some questions. You have indicated this committee has the authority to do this based on the wording in the proposed statute. Is it your opinion?

    Senator Raggio:

    What I was saying is that we are at a point where it would be difficult and time consuming for the staff to try to compute what would change on the revenue expectation. My opinion is that the committee that is included in this plan has broad authority to look at these things. There is a short interval between now and when we will convene in a regular session. That committee can be looking at these things in the mean time.

    Senator Nolan:

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will withdraw the motion. It is a serious concern that our State must be competitive in an area where we rely upon this type of revenue. I would like the staff to consider generating the figures for the revenue differences if this amendment was put into the bill so that we might deal with it later in a conference committee. If we do not address this issue, we might end up losing more revenue.

    Senator Coffin:

    I will withdraw the second based upon what I thought was reasonable language from the Chair.

    Senator Raggio:

    Is there further discussion on the main motion?

    Senator Titus:

    I am not as smart or as articulate as my colleague, the fine lawyer from Carson City, but I must speak from my heart. I came to this session prepared to vote for a broad-based business tax to help pay for education and to pay to get us off the bottom of every list for quality of life indicator across the country. I did that when I voted for Senate Bill No. 4. That provided for a net proceeds tax based on ability to pay. That tax hit gaming; it hit banks, and it hit retailers and developers. I thought it was a fair, broad-based tax. I cannot support the proposal before us today. It represents a classic example of what the majority party’s philosophy is about putting an extra burden on the little taxpayer and letting the big one off the hook. The big guys have profited and prospered for at least half of a century from the resources of this State without paying their share. The negative impact of just a payroll tax is unacceptable. According to this plan, you will tax a person’s cigarettes. You are going to tax their bottle of beer or glass of wine. You are going tax their concert tickets, and then, when they sell their house and try to move their family to a better neighborhood, you will tax that transaction. With this, you will add a tax to their wages. I do not think that this is fair, and I will not vote for it.

    Senator Amodei:

    I respect the comments of the Minority Leader, and I know she makes them in a sincere context, but as we look at this, I think our roll is not about little vs. big.

    This discussion on the broad-based business tax started several years ago about the impacts caused to a growing state by people who paid a wage that did not allow their employees to access the quality of life and life services that were necessary to be a resident of this State. We talked about the living wage, providing health care, allowing people to be productive members of our society, and when they were not allowed to be that in the context of wages or benefits, we talked about the impact on the State budget for us having to subsidize those things. It did not start in notions of little vs. big. It did not start in notions of income. It started in notions of employees. It started with a backdrop of a state that had a head tax. The head tax problem was that it hit everyone at a standard rate regardless of what was going on with their wages and regardless of what was going on in terms of part-time employees. When you have a proposal in front of you that catches part-time employees and allows employers to raise taxes without worrying about deleterious effects and has the support of all businesses, then you have to give it serious consideration.

    There are two Houses in this Legislature. The passage of this bill out of this House tonight does not cast anything in stone. It sends a message that some sort of progress is being made. It is important to focus on the final few issues that need to be focused on. To continue to do nothing and to continue to talk in conference rooms where there are no reporters and there is no theater seating and there is no record of what the discussions are, does violence to this process which has been going for four or five days. I believe that needs to stop, and these discussions need to happen in rooms like this with records so everyone can hear what everyone has to say. That it is done in the open.

    We should vote on this employee-based option with all the history of the employee factors that go into this. It is an appropriate way to start progress in what is the most important bill that any of us will vote on in our legislative careers. We should not be afraid of one or two line items. We should send it to the other House and let those 42 colleagues engage in the same process.

    Senator McGinness:

    To those people who may be listening on the Internet and to those who think this is a tax on someone’s paycheck, it is not. It is a tax on employers based on the payroll they pay every month. It is not another deduction from the worker’s paycheck. It is a tax the employer has to pay just as they pay unemployment tax now.

    Senator Coffin:

    With the deepest admiration to my leader, Senator Titus, who spoke eloquently tonight and to Senator Amodei, I say that they both make a strong case for their passionate beliefs.

    Senator Titus has not forced her ideas upon us as a caucus. She has indicated that we should do as we see fit based upon our consciences. I have looked at the options and what the Assembly Democrats have sent to us. I do not see a great deal of difference between what they sent us and what the Republican caucus has put together. There are some differences, but we are both taxing liquor at about the same amount. I do not drink my beer by the gallon, but I think 14 cents per gallon is reasonable. Thankfully, both Houses have gotten rid of the business license fee tax. That was the worst vote I ever cast 12 years ago. I am happy to see that go. Both Houses agree about the live entertainment tax. The Republicans added a 1-percent room tax; the Democrats on the Assembly have not. They put in a bank franchise fee that I understand to be a difficult fee to administer. I will disclose my wife is a shareholder and a member of a board of a bank. They are starting to make money, and they could afford to pay that if it should be in the final bill. It is not in the bill before us.

    The difference between the employer tax at 1.1 percent, the Republican proposal, and as I understand the negotiated Assembly tax of 0.65 percent, is 1/2 of a percentage point. Each House is dipping into the employer’s tax or the employee’s tax. They are both there. Those are the main differences. I have sat through 135 days of hearings on the budget. I know there are imperfections in that budget. There is some fat here and there. Trying to slice that out is tough. You cannot find enough to get the savings needed. We need this money. We went at this and only failed by one vote the other night. I do not want to fail again. I will vote for this, and I hope that our colleagues will support it. I agree there will be more discussions between the Houses.

    Senator Raggio:

    During all the days of discussion, we have had an opportunity to consider the views of every Senator and every Assemblyman. No caucus has united on every point. That is a plus. We have all tried to resolve the issue within the parameters of a two-thirds support for a plan.  While talking about a Democrat or Republican plan, the plan before us is a compromise. As Senator Coffin and Senator Amodei have pointed out, we took parts of both proposals and tried to accommodate each proposed plan. I agree with the accommodations as to what is the fairest and most equitable for the people we represent. Those of us who have been here for any length of time have had to make hard decisions. In the past, some of us have had to raise taxes. That is never popular.

    We will never satisfy everyone in the State with any plan we propose. If this plan is adopted in this House, it still must go to the other House. They will go through this same process. I commend each Senator who has worked to come to a consensus. We may not meet that. I do not know what the vote on this will be. If it does not pass, we will return to square one and begin again. We will utilize our time, not because we will be inconvenienced, but because we do what is best for the State. There are still people who think we should cut budgets. We have cut the budget from $970 million proposed by the Governor to $860 million. In doing so, we have exercised prudence. We have restored part of the stabilization fund. We do not want to be caught in the same situation we were in during the last biennium where we had to dip into the fund for $135 million to meet emergencies. In the next biennium, there will be some major problems. Approximately, $122 million of the funding for K-12 is in this budget from estate-tax money. The next time we return that money is not going to be available. That source is being phased out. Any plan we devise will have to be sufficient but not excessive. We have a budget to fund. It is already passed. It must have broad-based components involving business and all sectors, whether in gaming or construction. We are not being unfair to any people. There will always be sectors that feel otherwise. We need to make an effort to pass this revenue plan and send it to the other House to give them the opportunity they need to discuss this issue.

    Senator Neal:

    Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I was elected 31 years ago. After each four-year term, I pack up my office and go home. I vote based on conclusions I have made. As I look at this, I think about the money that is needed for education and for other purposes in this State. Even though this might not be the plan I would put together, Senator Amodei and others have done a good job in trying to reach a consensus and in bringing this before us. I commend them for their effort.

    Many of the Senators are not in the same position I am. They are not financially capable of staying here until “hell freezes over.” However, I do not want to stay here. I will support this issue so that we may send the bill to the other House. I will support this package, even those issues I feel strongly about. There is a group called Redress and Cooperate who will handle some of the other issues in a petition. They have indicated they are willing to free the Legislature from the gaming industry by making it illegal for the gaming industry to contribute to our elections. I support their actions.

    I will vote for this proposal and will gladly suffer the consequences. I am only elected for four years. If I want to come back, I will let the public know it. If they want to send me back, they can. If they want to defeat me, they can. That is within their power.

    Senator Schneider:

    Thank you. I am not happy with this proposal, but it is like buying a house. We have to buy one. I am a salesman and as I look at this, unless we keep going, we will never buy the house. This proposal is a good floor plan, but I do not like the color of the carpet; I do not like the color of the house; I do like the landscaping; I do not like the window coverings, but there are things we can change. We should not chisel everything in stone. We need to push this to the other House. There are people on the south end of the building who do not want to look at this. We need to keep this process moving because we need to buy a house. We can make changes, and maybe we can get the color of carpet we like.

    Senator Townsend moved to introduced and do pass the revenue plan as discussed.

    Senator Amodei seconded the motion.

    Motion carried.

    Senators Amodei, Care, Coffin, Mathews, McGinness, Neal, Nolan, Raggio, Rawson, Rhoads, Schneider, Shaffer, Townsend, Washington and Wiener voted yes.

    Senators Carlton, Cegavske, Hardy, O'Connell, Tiffany and Titus voted no.

    On the motion of Senator Townsend, the committee did rise and report back to the Senate.

SENATE IN SESSION

    At 6:04 p.m.

    President Hunt presiding.

    Quorum present.

INTRODUCTION, FIRST READING AND REFERENCE

    By the Committee of the Whole:

    Senate Bill No. 5—AN ACT relating to state financial administration; providing for the imposition and administration of an excise tax on employers based on wages paid to their employees; replacing the casino entertainment tax with a tax on all live entertainment; eliminating the tax imposed on the privilege of conducting business in this state; revising the taxes on liquor and cigarettes; imposing a state tax on the transfer of real property and revising the provisions governing the existing tax; revising the fees charged for certain gaming licenses; establishing the Legislative Committee on Taxation, Public Revenue and Tax Policy; making various other changes relating to state financial administration; making an appropriation; providing penalties; and providing other matters properly relating thereto.

    Senator Raggio moved that the bill be referred to the Committee of the Whole.

    Motion carried.

REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

Madam President:

    Your Committee of the Whole, to which was referred Senate Bill No. 5, has had the same under consideration, and begs leave to report the same back with the recommendation: Do pass.

William J. Raggio, Chairman

GENERAL FILE AND THIRD READING

    Senate Bill No. 5.

    Bill read third time.

    Remarks by Senators Raggio, Titus, Amodei, Coffin and Neal.

    Roll call on Senate Bill No. 5:

    Yeas—13.

    Nays—Carlton, Cegavske, Coffin, Hardy, O'Connell, Tiffany, Titus, Wiener—8.

    Senate Bill No. 5 having failed to receive a two-thirds majority, Madam President declared it lost.

MOTIONS, RESOLUTIONS AND NOTICES

    Senator Neal moved that the vote whereby Senate Bill No. 5 was this day lost be rescinded.

    Motion carried.

    Senator Raggio moved that Senate Bill No. 5 be taken from the General File and placed on the Secretary’s desk.

    Remarks by Senator Raggio.

    Motion carried.

    Senator Raggio moved that the Senate recess subject to the call of the Chair.

    Motion carried.

    Senate in recess at 6:22 p.m.

SENATE IN SESSION

    At 6:44 p.m.

    President Hunt presiding.

    Quorum present.

    Senator Raggio moved that Senate Bill No. 5 be taken from the Secretary's desk and placed on the General File.

    Remarks by Senator Raggio.

    Motion carried.

    Senator Raggio moved to suspend the Senate Standing Rule No. 41.2 whereby amendments can only originate from the Committee of the Whole.

    Remarks by Senate Raggio.

    Motion carried.

GENERAL FILE AND THIRD READING

    Senate Bill No. 5.

    Bill read third time.

    The following amendment was proposed by Senator Raggio:

    Amendment No. 2.

    Amend the bill as a whole by deleting sec. 169.5.

    Amend sec. 198, page 113, line 39, by deleting “169.5,”.

    Amend sec. 198, page 114, by deleting lines 22 and 23.

    Amend sec. 198, page 114, line 24, by deleting “ 9.” and inserting “8.”.

    Senator Raggio moved the adoption of the amendment.

    Remarks by Senators Raggio and Titus.


    Amendment adopted.

    Bill ordered reprinted, engrossed and to third reading.

MOTIONS, RESOLUTIONS AND NOTICES

    Senator Raggio moved that all rules be suspended, that the reprinting of Senate Bill No. 5 be dispensed with, and that the Secretary be authorized to insert Amendment No. 2 adopted by the Senate, and the bill be made the next order of business on General File.

    Motion carried.

GENERAL FILE AND THIRD READING

    Senate Bill No. 5.

    Bill read third time.

    Roll call on Senate Bill No. 5:

    Yeas—13.

    Nays—Carlton, Cegavske, Coffin, Hardy, O'Connell, Tiffany, Titus, Wiener—8.

    Senate Bill No. 5 having failed to receive a two-thirds majority, Madam President declared it lost.

    Senator Raggio moved that the Senate adjourn until Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 10 a.m.

    Motion carried.

    Senate adjourned at 6:49 p.m.

Approved:                                                                  Lorraine T. Hunt

                                                                                   President of the Senate

Attest:    Claire J. Clift

                Secretary of the Senate